A formatted pdf version of the interview (with photos) can be viewed here: http://www.southerngospelblog.com/features/201002.pdf.

Right before the interview started, Royce mentioned that he was hungry, so I handed him a pack of crackers. (Having some crackers handy saves several dollars in food court costs, money that can then be spent on CDs and LPs!) The interview started with him munching . . .

Keith: You know what, I’d better hold those [crackers], ’cause you can’t talk and eat at the
same time.

Royce: He’ll tell me when it’s my turn.

DJM: It’s your turn.

Royce: These [crackers] are really good; Daniel got me one.

Keith: All these group’s he’s interviewed, and here’s Royce chewing . . .

Royce: And it’s zero grams trans fat.

DJM: So, could we start off by each of you explaining individually where you come from, how you became interested in Southern Gospel, what groups you sang with before joining Liberty, and so forth. Keith, we could skip you, since I interviewed you a couple of years back.

Royce: This is Royce.

DJM: Oh, and if you want to know what groups Keith was in before he was with your group, you have two options: You can either read the interview on my website, or ask him, whichever’s easier.

Royce: I pick A. I’m gonna read the interview on your website, Daniel. And it is my favorite website.

DJM: Thanks!

Royce: . . . blog. And what was the question again? Oh, see, the first Southern Gospel group I was in was called the Gospel Four. I was thirteen years old. I sang tenor. And then my sophomore year in high school, it just dropped [said in a sad voice]. So I was stuck with what I had now. Let’s see, my ninth grade year through my twelfth grade year, I was in barbershop quartets, too, to learn that tight harmony. And then, let’s see, in college I was in a different traveling group every summer. One was Faith Freedom Trio, another was Spirit of Love. And have you guys have seen the guitar strap on that? I still have it today.

Keith: Yeah. Those were definitely 1970s groups! Spirit of Love . . . nice! [All laugh]

Okay, we can get back to you.

Royce: God’s Bible School graduates…

DJM: You went to God’s Bible School as well? [Keith did go there]

Royce: No. I went to Northwest Nazarene College in Nampa, Idaho. Let’s see . . . what else. New Creation was a quartet I was in. We were full-time for a while. Then I was a schoolteacher after that.

Keith: Tell him about your concert schedule with New Creation for that summer…you know, how many concerts you did.

Royce: Seventy-three concerts, seventy-three days.

DJM: That’s . . . insane.

Royce: By the time we finished, it was just a duet. But we were doing Gaither things then, early Imperials . . . had a great time.

DJM: You were doing Gaither things in terms of Gaither songs, or appearing at Gaither events?

Royce: Gaither songs. Gaither events? No. Bill doesn’t know me.

DJM: His loss.

Royce: I’ll get you a free drink if you’ll introduce him to me, though.

Dan: Dan Gilbert. Lead singer. Liberty Quartet. Where lead is king.

Royce: . . . rumbles the way only a bass can . . .

DJM: I might have to start posting the audio of these things!

Dan: My parents are from the south, Columbus, Georgia. My father being military, he got sent to Vietnam. So we were transferred back to Columbus, Georgia, to live there—mom and four boys, for the year that he was gone. And I remember going to church, Edgewood Assembly of God, and hearing different Southern Gospel groups, and just fell in love with that.

Royce: Oh, and by the way, my dad’s from Texas, and that’s where I got my influences in Southern Gospel.

Dan: See, you weren’t really listening to the question.

Royce: I was listening, I just didn’t remember all of it.

Dan: So that’s where [bursts out laughing . . . ] [regains composure] So that’s where I got that influence. [bursts out laughing again . . .] Sorry, Daniel! Hang on, it gets better!

Royce: He’s got other interviews to do later on.

Dan: So, anyway, my parents just had it playing in the house, all the time. So I fell in love with Southern Gospel music at a young, young age. And then, [bursts out laughing again . . . ] It’s hard to keep your composure when Royce is making funny faces at you!

Royce: [still munching on crackers] No, I was just asking if you could hear this . . . I don’t want it to go on there.

Dan: So, growing up, I was always involved in choir, in different groups. [everyone breaks out laughing again at Royce]

Royce: It’s nothing.

Dan: But I was very involved in the big choirs in the 70s, the Singing Ambassadors. I just knew that I had a calling for my singing, and I was involved in a number of small groups out of that choir as well.

The latest group I sang with before Liberty was a group in Boise called Faithful Men. It started just a year before Liberty started.

DJM: 1995?

Dan: Yeah, about then. We did a joint concert. Well, no, no, no . . . when did Liberty start?

Keith: ‘96.

Dan: Okay, then.

DJM: I wouldn’t have remembered that except that there’s a hat on your table that says that, and I saw it on the way I walked in.

Royce: Very good. [all laugh]

Dan: So anyway, did a joint concert with Liberty. Faithful Men was involved in it. And I knew at that point that if there was any way possible, I needed to sing with Liberty. So here we are, seven years later! [all laugh] Still crackin’ up!

DJM: So you’ve been with Liberty for seven years now?

Dan: Going on seven years.

Keith: Royce, has he been with you longer than any other member?

Royce: John Cotner was with Liberty for six years.

Keith: Dan, you have…

Dan: You mean I’ve broken the record?

Keith: You have broken the record.

Royce: Well, besides me.

Dan: Well . . . well, uh, good!

DJM: It’s not a race for the gold, it’s a race for the silver.

Dan: I remember hearing the Blackwood Brothers, J.D. Sumner. I knew for sure Southern Gospel music was what I wanted to sing even when I was with a Christian rock group.

DJM: Really? Did you sing?

Dan: Yeah, I was the lead singer for this Christian rock group. I was 15 or 16 years old.

DJM: So did you sing or did you scream?

Dan: It was singing. Do you guys ever remember hearing a song, “Drinking whiskey from a paper cup, You’ve drowned your sorrows till you can’t stand up”? That was one of the songs we did. We had a full band—we had brass, keyboard, drums. Our drummer used to play with Jefferson Airplane. He’d sit there with no shirt on, and a hat, at our Christian concerts.

Jordan: So it wasn’t Christian, then?

Dan: No, it was! It was Christian rock. It was not for me. So anyway, that’s that for me, signing off.

Jordan: Is it my turn? It was so long ago . . . [everyone laughs], I don’t even know where
to begin.

Royce: He’s 21.

DJM: I’ve actually got two years on him, believe it or not.

Jordan: You’re only 23?

DJM: Well, I just turned 23.

Jordan: Well, good, there’s someone else that’s young and knows a lot. But anyway . . . [everyone laughs] Where do I begin? I come from a pastor’s home. I was born in Indianapolis, Indiana, and my dad pastored a church in Gas City, Indiana till I was three years old. Then we moved to Ponchatoula, Louisiana, and my dad pastored there. So I’ve lived in Louisiana since I was three years old, and my dad still pastors there today. I went to Hobe Sound Bible College when I was eighteen, in Hobe Sound, Florida. There I was on scholarship to sing, to travel around for the school doing public relations, singing in the Chapel Quartet. I traveled with them for two years.

DJM: Did you sing baritone?

Jordan: I sang bass one year. [everyone laughs] The first year I sang bass . . . [everyone laughs] Royce is laughing. My dad is actually a great bass singer.

Keith: He is.

Jordan: A much warmer, fuller sound.

DJM: Has he been with any groups?

Jordan: No.

Keith: He’s awesome.

Jordan: He really is awesome. He’s had several job opportunities to sing Southern Gospel, but he feels like he’s called to pastor, so that’s what he does. So singing bass was very hard, because my dad traveled when he was in college. He did the exact same thing, and sang bass, and people would come up to me, and say, “Man, you’re good, but not as good as your dad.” So that was encouraging. So I switched to baritone. Then I got a call from Keith—I’ve known Keith for years. [gestures about hip level]

DJM: Since you were that high, or since he was that high?

Jordan: Since I was that high. He was a student recruiter at another college for years, and he tried to recruit me to God’s Bible School, and it didn’t work. I went to Hobe Sound Bible College in Florida—it was a sister college.

So Keith called me around . . .

Keith: Actually, it was on our way to NQC last year.

Jordan: On the way to NQC last year. He Facebooked me, asked what I was doing, what my plans for the future were. And he said to give him a call if I had time. To make a long story short, I flew out for a tryout in October of last year, and that was that.

DJM: So, Keith, how did you hear about him?

Keith: Man, I remember when he was a baby. They came to our house when his dad was traveling with a group. Beyond that, I’m trying to think. I remember when, I think it was at Appalachian Youth Camp—good grief! [a cell phone rings, and everyone laughs] If that was Bill calling, and he needs a third tenor singer . . .

Jordan: David just quit.

Keith: Anyway, I heard Jordan at an Appalachian Youth Camp. I still serve on the board of the camp. Anyway, Jordan sang in a talent contest, and . . . what was the name of the song? I think it was “Picture of Grace”, a Gaither Vocal Band song. I thought, “Man, that was pretty good.” But I never thought about it till three years later, when Doran Ritchey told us he wanted to back off of singing and just focus on piano. Royce told me to look up baritones, and there were three guys that I called. Jordan got back to me right away, and I didn’t even mess with replying to the other two guys. That’s how happy we were!

DJM: [To Dan] So you’ve been with Liberty seven years now?

Dan: Yeah.

DJM: [To Keith] And you’ve been with them four?

Keith: Let’s see. I signed the contract in December of ‘05. So it’ll be four years.

DJM: [To Jordan]: And you’re coming up to the eight-month mark?

Jordan: Eight months, working on nine.

Keith: Man, time goes by so fast!

DJM: [To Jordan] One other background thing, because I think some of the readers will find it interesting. Your grandfather on your mother’s side was also a preacher, is that correct? And there’s some family connections that readers will find of interest.

Jordan: Yes. My grandfather’s name was James Keaton. He had nine children. Four boys, five girls. Right? Five girls? [Consults with Keith.] Jimmy, Troy, Jeff, Bryan, four boys, and five girls. Three of the boys are pastors, and one of them is in the military.

All five of the girls, including my mother, are pastor’s wives or missionaries’ wives, which makes for an interesting family—except one of the girls, Kim Collingsworth, my mother’s sister. She is a great musician in Southern Gospel music.

Royce: She’s done pretty well with the tools I gave her. [everyone laughs]

DJM: So does singing pretty much run in your family on both sides, then? Because there were several singers on your mother’s side.

Jordan: Well, both. My dad’s family is also very musical.

Keith: You need to get a copy of Celebration’s tape—is it on CD?

Jordan: My dad sang with a group called Celebration. They held concerts with the Cathedrals, the Stamps back in the day . . . they were an amazing quartet. But my dad was called to the pastorate, the baritone was called to the pastorate . . . all four guys in that group are senior pastors or associate pastors now. And my aunt, Kim Collingsworth, was the piano player. I’d forgotten that little side note. They were amazing. They have one studio project—a cassette tape, don’t think they have CDs of it. They didn’t use any soundtracks—Kim was the music. It was often said that Kim was a soundtrack in and of herself. You didn’t really need one; she was incredible.

DJM: I wanted to talk a little bit about the current recording; you just came out with a brand new CD called The Journey. I’ll start with Keith, because he hasn’t had much chance to talk yet.

Keith: It is awesome! OK, OK…a little over the top. This recording, in all seriousness, is by far my favorite since I came to the group. I liked Amazed—Amazed has some great songs—but this CD…Wow! Between Roger Talley and Doran Ritchey’s instrumental arrangements and Phil Cross’s vocal arrangements we came up with a project that we’re very proud of. Phil did his best job with us yet; he was awesome. He pushed us, challenged us, and the result is pretty cool. It has twelve songs, five written by Doran.

Royce: Ten are original.

Keith: No, actually, we have three covers: “Welcome to Heaven,” which was done by the Singing Americans, “Till There Was Jesus,” Jake Hess with the Imperials, and “He Came Down to My Level.” So nine original. And of those nine, five are written by Doran. I guess he actually co-wrote one song with Jim Davis.

Jim Davis co-wrote another song with Joel Lindsey, Rodney Griffin wrote a song, John Robinson and Twila Labar wrote a song. . . oh, and there’s a guy by the name of Marty Hamby, who’s well known in church choral circles, from Lillenas. This is the first album that he ever orchestrated, and his orchestrations turned out to be incredible. They turned out really good.

Royce: What do you have to add to that, Dan?

Dan: I’m excited about the fact that our soundtracks have come up to another level, as far as orchestration, and a big quality sound. The vocal arranging that Phil did was just awesome. To see him work, to take a song that he’s never heard before, to have everyone be quiet after he hears it once or twice, and then to start building the parts, and hear the end result . . . it is amazing, that someone has that much talent and creativity, that is almost just there on demand.

DJM: So with Phil’s vocal arrangements, does he ever come up with something where you’re like, “And you want us to sing that?”

Dan: Oh, yes! Oh, all the time!

Royce: Edit that!

Dan: Phil and I have a special relationship.

Royce: He’s come crying . . .

Dan: No, I did not!

Jordan: What did he have him in his phone as?

Keith: He used to have him in the phone—your name is…

Dan: In Phil’s phone, if I ever call Phil, it shows up as Nerve Wrack. [everyone laughs]

He has nicknamed all of us, and my nickname is Nerve Wrack. Although this last recording, I did graduate from Nerve Wrack just back to Dan.

DJM: Oh, congratulations!

Dan: I’ve come up the ladder.

DJM: So what were the rest of your nicknames, then?

Royce: I can’t share mine. But I want to say . . . Jordan’s featured on three songs on this.

Jordan: Three?

Royce: Well, you’ve got that one phrase that’s awesome.

Keith: Well, my name is Phil Jr., for obvious reasons. [everyone laughs] One other thing I forgot to say about the recording, is that even though Doran is leaving us at the end of this month, we left a song on that he wrote and recorded with us, “The Welcome,” as a guest solo. Doran’s nickname was Delmar, because he did that Randy Travis song on Do You Know Him?

Royce: What did he call me?

Keith: Junior, it was just Junior.

DJM: So you had Junior and Phil Jr. in the same group—had to be confusing!

DJM: So, Jordan: On song number two or song number three, “I Made it Mine,” was that featuring you?

Jordan: Yes. “I made it Mine.”

DJM: So was that something Doran wrote randomly, or was it specifically written for you, based on your background. I listened to it last night, and noticed you have a grandfather who was a pastor, so I was curious.

Jordan: Well, his father was a pastor as well, and his grandfather was a pastor as well, so he wrote it with himself in mind. He wrote it before I joined, with himself in mind, but it ended up fitting me perfectly, as well.

Keith: And Jordan rocks on that song, too! I love it!

Jordan: You’re kind.

DJM: And what is your other solo on that CD?

Jordan: “In the Day of the Lord.” Great song.

Keith: He rocks on that song, too.

Jordan: Song 11.

DJM: Song 11 had a unique melody. I couldn’t remember the name, just that it was song 11. (I had only heard the CD the first time the previous day.)

Jordan: I think that’s a great song, by Jim Davis.

DJM: So you were on only two?

Jordan: They tried to use me on this one as little as possible! Actually, I came down with a cold mid-week, while we were recording, and Doran sang some of the baritone parts on there.

Royce: We tried to use you as little as possible on there? That’s not true.

Keith: ‘Cause I have only one solo on there. I’m like Steve French. The two of us only get one song per recording. At least it’s his decision…

Royce: Well, stylistically, you wouldn’t even know it’s him, the way he sings. It’s really good. What’s the name?

Keith: “He Came to Me.”

Dan: You and Phil spent two and a half hours on that song. That was one of the examples of Phil pushing to sing out of the box that you’re used to singing in.

Royce: Just for people that have been following us through the years, this is the fourth recording we have of mostly original songs. We started with Do You Know Him?, There’s a Testimony, Amazed, and then The Journey. We do all different styles, as you know. We do hymns, and we perform some of that old-time Southern Gospel.

DJM: So how many of you have had formal musical training? I know several of you
have college-level training in music.

Royce: [To Dan] You played saxophone in high school, didn’t you?

Dan: I was involved in marching band through junior high and high school. Didn’t really discover singing or get any instruction until I was in my senior year of high school. I got transferred from one high school to the next, and didn’t like their band. So I said, “Well, I’ll just go do choir!” I really wish I would have had more time in choir than I spent in band. But I played saxophone in band.

DJM: Royce, don’t you have a Master’s or a Ph.D. in music?

Royce: I have my Bachelor of Arts from Nampa Nazarene University (College, then), and I started my Master’s at Boise State—Go Broncos—and then I finished it in Oregon, at Portland State University.

DJM: And isn’t that in music?

Royce: It’s a master’s in the science of teaching music.

DJM: Okay.

Royce: M.S.T.

DJM: Keith, don’t you have some formal training in music, too?

Keith: I have a Bachelor of Arts in church music.

Royce: On top of that, I’m ordained, Keith is, Doran is, and he’s [JORDAN]working on his license in ministry.

DJM: So you can perform weddings after concerts?

Keith: Yeah. Funerals. Actually, more funerals. We can preach—we’re instant in season and out of season!

DJM: Maybe we can talk a bit about where you travel. You’re off the beaten path of most Southern Gospel concerts, but I understand you do come this way from time to time.

Dan: We do stay mostly west of the Mississippi.

DJM: How many dates do you do per year, by the way?

Dan: Roughly 150 to 170.

Keith: Actually, this year we’re scheduled to do 180 or so.

Royce: The most we’ve ever done is 203.

Dan: So almost everything is West of the Mississippi. North up to Alaska and Canada. We just took our first cruise to Alaska—that was successful, feel like we learned a lot. We have another cruise scheduled for October of 2010 with the Booth Brothers, Legacy Five, Beene Family, Greenes . . . green beans! . . . Yeah. Most of the time, we spend our winters south. Because if we go north, based on where we’re at, we run into snow. So most of the winters, we spend our time down around southern California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico.

DJM: And I understand your travel plans are rather interesting, in that you will leave the bus in a certain state, fly home, fly back, and get the bus. Is that the case?

Dan: Exactly. Because when we’re in Tucson, or Phoenix, Arizona, that’s a twenty-hour drive home. Well, if we only have three days at home, it makes no sense to drive. We’d be home long enough to do laundry, get back in the bus, and drive down in time for the concerts the following weekend. So we have found it more economical and better for our time at home to park our bus in RV parks down in Arizona, hop a plane, and fly home. That way, we’re home the same day, have three or four full days at home, and fly back. We’re permanent residents on C Street in Mesa, Arizona.

Keith: They love us!

Dan: Yeah. We’re involved in karaoke night, parade, water volleyball . . . [everyone laughs]

Royce: We do have a management team. Did you know that?

DJM: Yeah. I’ve spoken to them once or twice.

Royce: It’s based in Meridian, Idaho. Rick Whatley is the manager there. They do booking—we’re not with a booking agency. Rick and I chart the course together, where we’re headed. And then they do a lot of paperwork!

Keith: Thank the Lord for that!

DJM: Any questions you’d like to be asked?

Royce: How long have you been following us?

DJM: Well, Elysse Barrett introduced us at NQC three years ago.

Keith: Yeah, three years ago, I remember that!

DJM: My first NQC, and apparently your first NQC, too.

Keith: Yeah. Remember Elysse from the Biblical Worldview conference?

Royce: Yeah.

Keith: She introduced us.

DJM: And you gave me the Timeless Hymns 2 project. And I put it—I think it was literally at the bottom of the stack of CDs I picked up that year. With the Cathedral background, I figured it would be slow-paced, organ-based hymns. And I was like, “I’ll get to it, ’cause I give every CD that comes my way a review,” but it was two months later before I finally got to the bottom of the stack. And I was like, “I can’t believe I’ve waited this long!” Five stars, one of the highest reviews I gave to any CD I picked up at NQC that year!

Royce: Is that right? Hmm!

Keith: That was a neat recording.

DJM: Do you have a Timeless Hymns 3 in the works?

Keith: [To Royce] I don’t know . . . what do you think?

Royce: We’ve started to put together a list. But that reminds me, you talk about your influences…the Cathedrals have been our main group of influence.

DJM: So how much Southern Gospel do you get on the West Coast, other than a couple of groups that are native to the West Coast?

Royce: To our knowledge, we’re the only full-time Southern Gospel group from the west coast.

DJM: Who are some of the other part-time ones that make the rounds?

Keith: Herb Henry Family, love those guys. Evergreen State Quartet.

Royce: RSV.

Keith: RSV’s good.

Royce: Revised Standard Version. They’re out of Bakersville, California. And they’re really well received.

Keith: They do a good job. Evergreen State, Knox Brothers.

Royce: Johnson Family. There’s two Johnson families, the one that plays the guitar with the three girls.

Keith: I don’t think they travel anymore. But the other Johnson family, the Johnson Family Quartet out of Ontario, California, they do a good job.

Dan: What’s that other trio? Light?

Keith: Lighthouse Quartet.

Royce: Cornerstone, out of Oregon. And then Washington has James Arnesson and Crossroads New Revival.

Dan: Father’s Daughter.

Royce: Father’s Daughter out of British Columbia in Canada.

DJM: Now on the West Coast, do you find that a lot of the West Coast fans are people who have moved from the South, or are many of the fans that you get that are not just aware of your group —because every group has some fans who only know them, and not other groups—but of the Southern Gospel fans you encounter on the West Coast, who are familiar with both your group and some of the groups back here, do you find that a lot of them are transplants, people who’ve moved from the South?

Royce: They have influences from the South.

Keith: Well, back in the day, the Blackwoods and the Statesmen would come out to the West Coast all the time.

DJM: The Blackwood Brothers still do, in fact.

Keith: The Blackwood Brothers—Jimmy Blackwood’s group—they stay busy out there.

DJM: They’ll do a 25-day tour or something.

Keith: And then the Cathedrals came up there for twenty years. The Hoppers have come out since the ’70s. We actually have a surprisingly high number of Southern Gospel groups that tour the West. Then groups like the Beene Family started in California. The Crist Family started in Seattle, Washington, and moved east. But they still have a lot of fans in that area. Really, Southern Gospel is alive and well in the west, and there’s a reason why you see a lot of these big-name groups not only come there on a year after year basis, but you’re seeing more trying to break into the market.

Dan: But I think there’s a fair share, too, who come up to us after the concert, and say, “We’ve never heard this style of music. We never knew this style of music existed, and we are hooked! We love this music! And this is the first time we’ve ever heard it!”

DJM: And I have a few friends in Southern Gospel circles who knew nothing about Southern Gospel music until they heard about your group, and have since expanded to get interested in other groups.

Dan: Exactly. And we make sure to let them know. We’ve done a tour out there with Greater Vision. People had never heard of Greater Vision. One of the top groups in the industry, and they’ve never heard of them! They know Liberty Quartet, because like you said earlier, we were their introduction to the genre. But I think the vast majority of people expand out, and start listening to other groups.

Keith: And I think that’s the cool thing about the west. It’s largely an untapped market, if there is such a thing. They’re largely saturated in the South, Midwest, East . . . you get out the West, and seriously, we’re introducing people to Southern Gospel music who have never heard it. It’s awesome. So I would say there are very few groups who introduce more new fans to this music than we do. That would be my guess, just based on what we hear at concerts.

DJM: So let me phrase this whole issue in another way. Big-name groups, and medium-name groups, and little-name groups, people from groups of all sizes read some of these interviews. So whatever size of group it is, if they want to reach people on the West Coast and expand their ministry outreach to a national level—you know the West Coast better than practically anyone else, as far as from a Southern Gospel perspective. What would you suggest they do?

Royce: The number one thing, as always, the ministry side of it, and feeling a call in that direction. But it had better be quality. Because if people come to one and it’s not up to the standard, they won’t come the next time.

DJM: And that has hurt Southern Gospel in this area. But on the West Coast, fewer people have had a bad experience with a poor-quality Southern Gospel group.

Keith: Unfortunately, that’s a stigma that Southern Gospel—especially in bigger churches-has. We hear comments: “We didn’t know what this was going to be. We thought it would be a bunch of hicks, singing through their noses.” There’s no doubt about it that people who do shoddy work, in production or presentation, have hurt the market. Not only here, but even in the West. And, to add my two cents worth, it also hurts the reception of the Gospel.

DJM: Any other practical ideas, besides presenting a high quality presentation—any practical ideas on ways for them to do that?

Royce: It is very expensive. The marketing side of it, there, for newspapers. For instance, the Boise paper is the Idaho Statesman. It’s something like $750 for a 3×4. It’s really expensive to get the word out that way. I’m thinking Internet is the best way to keep it going, and some of the groups are improving that.

Keith: And I know that, for instance, the Booth Brothers had a great tour through the Northwest and the West. Now, granted, the Booth Brothers do a great job, but three or four years ago, the West didn’t really know them. They’ve done a great job of marketing, of building up a fan base, and then promoting to that fan base. They used Landon Beene to manage their western tour, and he did a fantastic job. I think it’s just like breaking into any market. It’s like us coming East. People don’t know you. You’ll have to get your foot in the door. Don’t come and demand $4500 to sing to people who have never even heard you before. There’s a great chance it’s not gonna happen! Get your foot in the door. People are gonna love you if you do a good job. Build some recognition the right way.

DJM: Getting close to winding this up. What would you describe as your individual missions, and your group’s mission as a group? What motivates you to go out on stage week after week? Jordan, maybe we can start with you, because you haven’t talked for a while.

Jordan: Umm, well, if I don’t get on that bus every weekend, Royce isn’t gonna pay me! [everyone laughs]

Keith: That’s a great motivation!

Jordan: I got some bills and stuff!

Royce: He ain’t gonna lie to you!

Jordan: I ain’t gonna lie to you! But all kidding aside—well, that’s obviously a reason, but seriously, I love singing. I would rather sing harmony than do anything else. Growing up, I loved sports. I played high school basketball and football, but I would rather sing than do anything else. And when we get on that bus every weekend, I’m excited, because I love what we do! I keep waiting for it to wear off, but it’s been about nine months, and it still hasn’t. I honestly love what we do.

And the ministry aspect, everywhere we go, we see souls that are saved. I meet families that come up, who have known these guys for a while, whose lives have been changed (and not in a small way). The stories of the lives that have been touched…it’s incredible. And that’s definitely why I do what I do.

Keith: I’m gonna riff off what Jordan said. Every night, we have an invitation. Every evening, we make sure people have a chance to accept Christ. Doran, Jordan, myself—we all have had some part in that invitation time at some point or another. And that is very valuable. And that’s a very important reason why we travel.

To get back to what Jordan said, I think the biggest impact we’ve been able to make has been encouraging Christians. I am amazed at the impact we’ve had, just doing our thing. We try to be real; what you see on the stage is what you’re going to get off the stage. We try to just be who we are, except for Royce! [laughs] We don’t let people see his crazy side!

But no, we have had an impact in people’s lives. And to see them cry when they talk about a song that we sang, one that God used to speak their current situation, is pretty incredible. The last few weeks, we have been with several people who have lost someone close to them within the past year, whether it’s a child or a spouse. And it’s amazing, just in the last few weeks, how many people have come by the table to let us know how much we have ministered to them.

Jordan: How about the agnostic family?

Keith: Yeah, that was a couple that accepted Christ. We were at a concert in Arizona, a huge concert, and there was an agnostic couple in the congregation.

DJM: What brought them to come?

Keith: It was billed as an entertainment. We weren’t billed as a church service, so to speak. It was at an RV resort. They showed up, they heard us, we gave the invitation, and we left. We didn’t know this until a couple of weeks later, but this couple immediately found the chaplain, and said, “You know, whenever you get a chance, we want to talk to you. We have a few questions about what those guys were singing about. We’ve never heard this.”

To make a long story short, after about three or four hours with them, he led them to Christ. It’s pretty cool to hear a story like that, how God was able to use us.

Royce: I think that for me, it has to be the Gospel message in the songs. We spend hours looking through songs to choose, that are going to be on our next recording, that we are going to do in services. With the exception of three or four that are novelty pieces—

DJM: Bus Driver.

Royce: Yeah. But it still blesses me, but . . . [everyone laughs]

But with the exception of a few of those kinds of songs, they’re not only songs that I need to sing, but that I need to hear. The music that we’re singing affects my life every time we do it. To me, that’s just a powerful thing. I’m still just as enthusiastic about being able to do what I’m doing as I was the very first time I sang. And these are my best friends, too.

Keith: If I can just add something about my buddy, Royce. In my four years of being with the group, we have yet to do the same concert twice. And the reason we don’t go with a set program—and I’m thankful for it—is that Royce and, up to this point, Doran, have worked to read the crowd, to sense the Spirit’s moving in the concerts. It’s amazing.

In fact, we were in Hagerman, Idaho, not too long ago. Just another standard concert. But God settled in, and Royce just took it in a different direction. God was just giving him the songs to sing. That’s what I appreciate about him, and appreciate the most about the guys I travel with. They live it behind the scenes, and the fact that we don’t have to get stuck in some rut—we can actually see God move—and at the same time present a quality program, that’s pretty incredible, and I’m proud to be a part of that.

Jordan: When I first joined the group—I come from a pretty conservative background—I called my aunt Kim to ask her for some advice. I didn’t know much about Liberty at the time. I said, “What do you think I should do?”

And the two main things she said were, “Well, I can’t make the decision for you, but I can tell you—what are their priorities? That’s what you need to find out. Are their priorities fame and money, or are the priorities to minister? Because I promise you, if it’s fame and money, it will get lame real fast.”

And it didn’t take me long to realize that the #1 priority of Royce and all the guys is definitely ministry, above all else. Countless times, I’ve seen him get to the end of the concert, feel the Spirit moving, and just give away CDs. I can say without a doubt that Royce Mitchell is a very godly man, and I have a lot of confidence in him.

Keith: Well, also, he knew it was definitely about the ministry when he got his first paycheck, too! [everyone laughs]

Royce [to Dan]: Anything to add to that, seven-year-man?

Dan: Liberty uses a lot of comedic relief in their concerts.

Royce: Scratch that. Humor. [everyone laughs]

Dan: And . . . there are those nights, just like any other job, where you don’t necessarily feel like going to work. And you can be putting on your tie, and feel like “I’ve been driving all day, I haven’t slept . . . honestly, I just don’t want to sing tonight.”

But we get in there, the music starts, and you see those one or two people out there that, no matter what goes on, they won’t crack a smile. But then as the concert goes on, you notice them loosening up and smiling. I’ve had people tell me—cause I run sound—“Young man, if you run sound this loud, we’re getting up and walking out, and never coming back.” Those people now can’t wait for us to come back, even with the volume up a little bit! Because they sense a spirit from this quartet that is real.

I’ve had people tell us, “You guys seem so happy!” Well, it’s because we are! We have a joy that only God can give. And we want to share that joy, and we want to help people forget about their cares for a couple of hours.

And we have countless people that thank us, and not always for the music. “Thank you for helping me laugh, because I have not laughed for x number of months, or even years. But tonight I experienced something that I haven’t experienced in . . . forever.” There’s a real sense of gratitude for us taking them to that place.

So that’s what I’ve experienced in these seven years. Liberty Quartet is who we are. We can rest in the fact that we’re doing what God wants us to do, and we’re doing it in the way that he wants us to do it. And I feel that makes us very unique.

DJM: Any other thoughts or comments, and could whoever wraps that up close with Liberty’s contact information?

Royce: Yeah. You said something about our mission. Our mission statement’s on our website. It’s powerful. Now I don’t know it, but it’s powerful! [everyone laughs]

Dan: Oh, my!

Keith: Now what contact information did you want?

DJM: Website, a general group email, office phone number.

Royce: Tell him about the Facebook and stuff.

Keith: www.libertyquartet.com is our website and our Facebook page is www.facebook.com/libertyquartet. Jordan does a great job of uploading videos behind the scenes—for better or for worse!—and I usually add pictures, and what I like to think of as catchy little captions! One thing we’ll be doing, especially for those on our Facebook page, is offering a free song download or two, to encourage people to sign up, that sort of thing.

Royce: Edit that!

Keith: Royce doesn’t know about this yet! This is Southern Gospel—we’re not used to hearing free! [everyone laughs]

They can book us at 208.938.9364, or bookings@libertyquartet.com. I think that’s it.

Royce: Your blog—give them your blog.

Keith: Daniel knows I haven’t posted forever. I’m working through Facebook now. Jordan, Dan, and myself are all on Facebook. Royce, why aren’t you on Facebook?

Royce: I’m not sure what that is. But give them Daniel’s blog.

Keith: Who?

Royce: Daniel’s.

Keith: They’re going to be reading it on his website!

Royce: That could be why I don’t have Facebook yet! [everyone laughs]

DJM: That was good! And thank you very much! [ . . . and the recording of the
interview ends with everyone laughing]

I had seen the authors’ credits on various projects, here and there, but honestly had no idea who they were. I had almost worked up the nerve to email Kenna Turner West (who was the one I could track down via Google) and ask for an interview, when, out of the blue, the other co-writer, Lee Black (who, by the way, is a guy) sent me an email out of the blue thanking me for the review.

Of course, I took this as the open door I needed and set up this interview.

DJM: What led to your interest in songwriting?

Kenna: I grew up in the music industry. My dad [Ken Turner] sang bass with The Blackwood Brothers for many years, so I was raised backstage listening to songs like Dottie Rambo’s “He Looked Beyond My Fault” and Lanny Wolfe’s “Precious Blood,” which was probably the first lyric that completely wiped me out. What a wonderful song.

Lee: I first took an interest in writing at about 13 or 14. They were really bad attempts at the kind of pop, R&B, and country songs I was listening to. Nothing that I would ever let anyone hear now even if I had copies of them…but that’s when the bug bit!

DJM: How did you get started?

Lee: I’ve always loved writing and initially thought I would be a journalist. As I continued with piano lessons, band, choir…those kinds of things…the writing interest took on more of a specific focus with songwriting. And that interest really started growing throughout my college years. That’s when I first had the thought, “I would really love to do this professionally.” I entered some songwriting contests here and there, had some success at it, and met some writer and publisher types who really encouraged me. So my wife and I decided early on to move to Nashville and try to make a go of the writing thing.  My first cut was on Brian Free and Assurance’s first project after Brian left Gold City.  I was working on a song by song basis with Dave Clark and a publishing company he had called First Verse Music. I signed with Daywind Music Publishing in the late 90’s and wrote there for a few years. In 2000, a college roommate of mine called and said he was planting a church in Fairhope, AL and asked if I would come and serve as worship leader. After a lot of prayer, we felt like the Lord was leading us here. We have been here almost nine years now – some of that time in full time worship ministry and about four and half years in a part time role as I took a job in music publishing at Integrity Music, across the bay, in Mobile, AL. That time was a really good education for me in publishing and songwriting. I was exposed to SO many songs and had the opportunity to work with writers and A&R people in planning projects.

Kenna: I’ve been on the road as a singer and speaker for twenty-six years, but in the late 90’s I took a staff position at our church near Nashville for several years. One night at a Bible study, a friend who didn’t know I was a “closet songwriter” told me that I should be doing something with my songs…she even loaned us her husband’s studio to make it happen. A few months later, another friend from church who worked for The Spring Hill Music Group gave the songs to Phil Johnson who called the next day and asked me to write for them. Within a month, I had a title cut on Karen Peck and New River called “A Taste of Grace,” and a few weeks after that I had a cut on Jeff and Sheri Easter called “We’re Not Gonna Bow” which was a #1 song and a Dove Award nominee. It’s wild…four years later I was voted songwriter of the year, yet if it wasn’t for two friends from church, my songs would still be in a notebook under my bed. Now I am at Word Publishing, thanks to Dave Clark, and got a second Dove nomination this year for a song I wrote with Lee and Sue Smith called “Big Mighty God.” It’s crazy favor.

DJM: Do you mostly co-write with other authors, or is that just what’s gotten published so far?

Lee: Like I said, I live in Fairhope, AL…so contrary to popular belief, you do not have to live in Nashville to write songs, but it does help to have a presence there. So I usually spend about three days, every other week, in Nashville writing. I plan those trips specifically to co-write. Over the last couple of years, I’ve written close to 100 songs a year but only five or six of those a year are single writes. I love the co-writing process and feel like some of my best songs are co-written. There’s just something that happens in a co-writing situation when you’re able to bounce ideas off of someone else and get different perspectives.

Kenna: With the exception of a few songs I wrote with Twila Labar while I was at SH like “Get About God’s Business,” I didn’t do a lot of co-writing until I signed with Word. I remember telling Sue a few years ago that I had a fear of going into a co-write and “firing blanks.” She said not to worry about it…that some days it’s about fellowship over a good cup of coffee. She doesn’t remember telling me that, but wow, it changed everything for me. Now I actually prefer to co-write. It’s probably 70% talking and 30% writing. Unless you are Lee, Allison Speer, and me, then it’s 80% laughing and 20% writing.

DJM: In the co-writing process, do you see yourself primarily as a lyricist or a composer?

Lee: I feel like I’m a jack of all trades and master of none.  It depends on who I’m writing with.  Sometimes I have to be the melody guy, sometimes I have to be the lyric guy, sometimes it’s a give and take with both.

Kenna: I hear the melody and the lyric in my head at the same time, so I am a bit of both, I guess.

DJM: How many songs have you written? How many have been cut?

Kenna: I have probably written a thousand songs…most of them need to stay unheard, but some are really special. I’ve had some great cuts on The Talley Trio, Brian Free and Assurance, Karen Peck and New River, Jeff and Sheri Easter, Best of Friends (Sheri, Joyce, and Karen), Ivan Parker, Legacy Five, The Hoppers, Lordsong, Mike Lefevre Quartet, Larry Ford…a bunch of amazing folks. Next year, I have a co-write on Lauren Talley’s new project, several with Mike and Kelly Bowling, and a handful on the new Sisters release…some of those are co-writes by Lee and me.

Lee: Yeah… I’d say the same thing about mine: some of them don’t need to see the light of day!  But I’ve had cuts by Ivan Parker, The Nelons, The Ruppes, Mike LeFevre Quartet, Brian Free and Assurance, Legacy Five, among others.  And, like Kenna said, some that I’m excited about for next year!

DJM: Of your songs that have been cut, what are some of your highlights, some of your favorites?

Lee: This is funny timing on this question, because this week I would definitely answer that question this way: Our kids at church are presenting a Christmas musical, for which I co-wrote songs, this Sunday night.  Over the years, I’ve had a few cuts that have been pretty cool.  But there absolutely has been nothing sweeter than hearing my own children sing my songs.  Knowing that they’re “getting it” and knowing that something I’ve had a hand in writing is helping to shape their faith is incredibly rewarding.  The cuts will come and go – I feel like this stuff is eternal.

Kenna: I love “Red Letter Day” by The Talley Trio. But my sentimental favorite is a Sheri Easter cut on the Best of Friends project called “If She Could.” I wrote it about my grandmother’s battle with Alzheimer’s, yet every word of the song is about her grandmother as well.

DJM: Touching on what prompted this mini-interview, you recently had an incredible song on Legacy Five’s “Just Stand” project. What sparked the idea for the song “Faithful to the Cross”?

Lee: So many times in a Nashville writing room, the conversation goes like this: Who’s looking? What do they need? Oh… let’s write that. Kenna and I wrote “Faithful To The Cross in February of last year.” This was one of those great days when we didn’t have anybody specifically we were targeting. We just wanted to write a song that moved us…

Kenna: That day, another writer was supposed to join us but had to cancel. So Lee and I started throwing out hooks like always to see what we wanted to chase down. I mentioned a song I had written a few years ago that had a strong chorus but weak verses. The back half of the chorus said, “Forgetting what’s behind me, counting it as loss. Faithful to the finish, faithful to the Cross.”

Lee: It immediately grabbed me. I love that idea of running the race well, finishing strong…that thought of leaving a legacy for those behind us. I remember at one point, as we were singing through the chorus, Kenna pointing to her arms getting the “glory bumps” and thinking we were really on to something.

When Kenna and I write, we will get a work tape finished, then I’ll go home, record a piano track in MIDI, and email it to Kenna’s husband Kerry who is a GREAT engineer. They have a studio in their home. And depending on whether the pitch is male or female, she or I will sing the lead on the demo and then we add BGV’s…

Kenna: Lee came over and sang this amazing vocal on the song and I immediately pitched it to Scott Fowler. Our demo didn’t have background vocals on it yet so the song didn’t come off as powerful as it was written, and they passed on it. So I shot it over to Terry Franklin for BGV’s. The night we finished the mix, I emailed Scott again about the song, but he said they were tracking two days later and that their song list was already finalized. I resent the song anyway…it couldn’t hurt to try again.. He emailed back a few hours later and told me that they were going to find a slot for it.

DJM: I know the song just came out, but have you heard any neat testimonies or stories about the song yet?

Kenna: I got the sweetest note on FB from a man who had just lost his father, saying that every word of the lyric was about his dad. He thanked us for writing it…made me cry. Scott Fowler also had a nice piece on his blog about the song.

DJM: Anything else you wanted to share with the readers?

Lee: Just that feel privileged to get to do what I love.  And grateful that occasionally those songs that I love writing end up getting recorded.  Big blessing.

Kenna: I am thankful that as I mature in Christ, the songs do, as well. And I am thankful for the friends I have made through co-writing, like Lee and his family. God is so good!

DJM: How can people get in touch with you? Do you have a website?

Kenna: I am on Facebook, or you can holler at me on my web site: www.KennaTurnerWest.com.

Lee: I Facebook and Twitter.  I have a MySpace that doesn’t get updated too much.  No website.

We did do the taping, and it went great!

You’re always concerned when it comes time to do any recording that everyone is healthy and in good vocal shape. God answered prayer by allowing each of us to be at our best.

This was my first taping experience, so starting out I was a little nervous, but it went very smoothly and the folks at Daystar were nothing but friendly and professional. We were able to preview a little of the footage, and it looks wonderful! Now we have to do some editing and a few minor corrections, but overall we feel that this is going to be a great DVD.

To answer your question, we will be making a live CD of the concert, but we have to exclude the songs we recorded from our latest CD. We sang The Son Came Down and Dealing with Gold, and it’s fine to put those on a DVD, but we can’t reproduce on a CD songs we have done with Crossroads this year…twould be a violation of our contract with them. But we recorded several songs on the second round Thursday night that we can insert in their place that would fit just as well, so we’re still confident that everything will be fine.

At this point, we don’t know exactly how many songs will be on the video, but it will be somewhere between 18 and 24, probably. It could be more, and it could be less, but I would say most likely no less than 18 songs. One of the most important things about this video will be the making available of several songs on a recording that we currently have on nothing. Jesus is Coming Soon, On the Sunny Banks, and Beulah Land will be on it, along with Wedding Invitation, The Night Before Easter, I’m Not Ashamed, Winner either Way, If you Only Knew, I have Not Forgotten, How Great it Is, The Rose, Glory to God in the Highest, I’ll Have a New Life, and an old song that has been requested a lot lately, Look What I’m Trading for a Mansion. There may be some other songs I’m forgetting, but you get the idea!

We’re all excited about this project, and we’re confident that it will be a blessing and encouragement to many people for years to come! Right now we’re considering recording a hymns project in the Spring, so be watching!

A formatted version of this story (with photos) is here: www.southerngospelblog.com/features/200912.pdf.

I had made plans to interview Dianne Wilkinson on Tuesday night of this year’s National Quartet Convention. So we would have plenty of time, we arranged to meet at the Greater Vision booth about an hour before the last group walked off the mainstage for the night.

A few minutes before the scheduled time, I showed up at the Greater Vision booth. A few minutes passed, and she wasn’t there. So I started playing with their product manager Chad’s little boy. After a while, I was starting to get concerned, so I decided to walk around and see if she was anywhere in the area.

She was just a few rows down, at the Mark Trammell Trio booth. The two booths are within easy sight of each other if you’re standing up, but we had both been sitting. She had figured that she could wait there, since she’d surely see me when I walked up to the Greater Vision booth.

It turned out a half hour had passed by the time we actually saw each other and headed over to the media room. We got to talking, and (to borrow a phrase from her) we were having a big time, and lost track of the clock.

By the time I realized what time it was, we had been talking for about an hour fifteen minutes—forty-five minutes after the mainstage show wrapped up, and fifteen or thirty minutes after the vendors’ hall closed.

I thought that since it wasn’t too long after everything wrapped up, there would surely be people still milling around, wrapping things up after the night’s events. But the building was practically empty.

We walked out to our cars, and drove out to the main exit gate.

It was locked.

We decided to drive around back and check the back exit.

It was also locked.

After about a loop and a half on the freeway surrounding the Kentucky Fair & Expo Center grounds, we found a little exit with a guard at a security checkpoint. As we pulled up, he asked our names, wrote them down on a notepad, and waved us on out. (This surprised both of us; we thought he would surely note down our license plates or our car serial numbers. What are the chances a thief would give his real name? I guess we didn’t look suspicious!)

And here’s the interview that was worth every bit of the trouble:

DJM: Could we start with you telling us a little about your background—when you came to know the Lord, and when you started writing music?

Dianne: Daniel, I went forward at a revival meeting when I was a little grade school girl. The preacher preached on Hell and I was terrified—my little knees were knocking together. And I went forward and shook hands with the preacher; that I remember. They stood me up on the communion table in my little frilly dress, and I remember that. And I remember people shaking my hand.

I remember everything but praying the sinner’s prayer. I don’t really remember being under conviction so much as I was frightened.

I had always been in church, and I continued to always be in church. I grew up and became a church musician at age twelve—played then like I play now. I taught Sunday School as always, got married, still in church, beginning to write songs already.

In 1974, the Lord spoke to me while I was driving my car, in almost an audible voice, and these are the two words I heard: “You’re lost.”

I had not started the ignition yet, and I’m really glad, because I knew that was the Lord speaking to me. And I wrestled with that for two weeks, under that conviction. I knew I was a sinner.

I was shocked as much as anything, because I thought I had done what I was supposed to do. I loved the Lord after my fashion, was involved in church work. But I knew how you had to be saved, and if He was telling me that it had not happened, I got to thinking about that little childhood experience, and knew I had not done what I had to do.

So I got up late one night, left my late husband—I lost my husband in 1991—asleep, and I went to the spare bedroom, and got down on my face in the spare bed. And I was saved that night—and I’ve never had a doubt since then.

Many, many, people have my testimony—a lost church member. They are there three times a week, and every time for every meeting. If I had passed away during that time, if anyone that knew me had gone to my funeral, they would have said, “We know we’ll see old Di again.” But they wouldn’t have. I’d have been in that crowd that heard, “Depart from Me, I never knew you.”

So I have a heart for lost church members.

DJM: Getting back to that in a minute, has this come out in the lyrics to any of your songs?

Dianne: Well, I’ll tell you what I have some songs that do speak to, that didn’t really happen to me, but I knew they were someone’s testimony. I’ve had some songs that talked about someone that pretended to be saved, that played church for a lot of years—for instance, Mark Trammell has that testimony—and then got saved later on.

A lot of my songs relate to someone who’s come from a dark place through their sinful years, and that’s not my testimony. “What Salvation’s Done for Me” is a good example—I wrote that lyric about the dark side, all that God brought you out of. That does happen.

I don’t know that I’ve specifically written that aspect of my testimony. It’s interesting—the older I get, the my testimony songs become more like “Safe on the Glory Side”—don’t sing sad songs at my funeral, because I know where I’m heading.

No doubt it did influence me, though, because that was a little second-grade girl all the way till I was grown and married. That was a long time to think I was saved and wasn’t. It probably has influenced a lot of my songs.

DJM: How did you get started writing songs?

Born into a music family—my mother had one of those big band-style voices, Doris Day and all that. She could have been one of those people, had they been in the right place. Her sister was the same way. And they had a trio in our area. They put me in their group when I was twelve years old, playing and singing. We went to hear the Goss Brothers and the Rangers, and all those people that did it right back then—those difficult arrangements—and so I learned to love all that when I was a kid. I was always in it, always sang with my family.

I began to write when I was in my twenties. I’d always made up verses and things, but I began to write serious Gospel music when I was in my twenties. And right at the same time, the Lord really moved me into the Word of God, in a serious way. I would come from work, hole up in my bedroom—and I had gotten hold of a couple of commentaries that really opened up my Bible to me.

DJM: What were some of those commentaries, that meant the most to you?

Dianne: Well, the one that meant the most to me, and I say that no Christian’s library is complete without Clarence Larkins’ Dispensational Truth.

Are you familiar with who he is?

DJM: Hmm. Not sure.

Dianne: He was writing in the late 1800s; he was an elderly gentleman in the early 1900s. And what’s so great about his exposition and his ability to shed light on the Word of God—he was a draftsman by trade. And the book I’m talking about is atlas-sized. He has charts in there.

I know when I see Pastor Hagee, when he has the big charts with the book of Revelation and all that—Clarence Larkin was able to do that first.

I got that book in such a miraculous way. I was in civil service at the time; my town was an Air Force town. And there was a Staff Sergeant I worked with who was a lay preacher. And he had that book, and he gave me his copy of that book. And it changed my life—it opened my Bible up for me.

I should replace it because it’s ragged now, some of the pages are ripped—but I don’t want a new one! I want that one, because it’s dear to me!

And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve bought that book and given it to people—friends of mine, new Christians, a couple of writer friends.

So I didn’t know what He was preparing me for. I just knew I was hungry and had to get it in me.

I always taught Sunday School—He’s called me to do that, too—and He prepared me to write.

DJM: What grades did you teach?

Dianne: Well, I taught younger people when I was younger. But I now teach the Open Door Sunday School Class at Spring Hill Baptist Church in Dyersburg, Tennessee, where my brother is the pastor. We call it Open Door because we’ve got some young married people in there, we’ve got some old married people in there, we’ve got couples, we’ve got singles, we’ve got ladies whose husbands don’t come … so we say, “Come one, come all.”

I teach directly from the Bible. We’re going through Revelation again, for the third time. The first time we took it through was in 1997. It’s amazing how the news has changed on the scene since that happened!

But I really have three callings on my life—that’s one, the songwriting is one, and the Lord called me to be a church musician.

DJM: Do you still play piano for your church?

Dianne: I do—three times a week. I’m faithful to that, and love to do that. That’s why I don’t do a lot of traveling on the weekends.

I still work full-time in healthcare, and have done that for forty years. I don’t bail out on my church to go to singings, because that’s part of what I do, and I still love to do it.

It’s just an amazing thing, that you fall in love with what God calls you to do! And that’s not any accident, is it?

I just love to write songs, I just love to teach, and I love to play those old songs. We love the Stamps-Baxter songs.

DJM: Does your church sing any of your songs?

Dianne: Oh, honey, they do! My brother is a great singer. He loves quartet singing.

Some of mine he can’t do as a solo artist, because mine are quartet style, and they go from here to here [gestures high and low] range-wise. But I’ll tell you one he really does great. If you remember when Gold City did “Keep Me on the Wheel?”—that little bluesy song?

DJM: Oh, yeah!

Dianne: The Ball Brothers have it out now a capella.

DJM: I heard about that.

Dianne: Oh, it’s just great!

DJM: In fact, I think I have it in my bag right now.

Dianne: But anyway, he really has a feel for the bluesy style. Remember when Gerald Crabb came out with “I Just Can’t Sing the Blues no More”?

DJM: Yeah.

Dianne: But anyway, he does that. He was singing with my family in the early ’70s, when I wrote Boundless Love, and we were already singing it. My friend Gail back here—we sang it with her later. And here’s what she said to me one day, prophetically—I knew Gail before any of the songs hit—she looked at me and said, “That’s the one that’s gonna do it for you, girl, that’s the one!”

And it really turned out to be. The Cathedrals had that on hold for five years before they cut it.

DJM: On hold for five years!

Dianne: They did! It was on the first demo we ever did—with Tim, my late husband, a good, good singer. And this was in late 1981. We borrowed the thousand dollars, which was a lot of money in 1981, and I timidly approached my hero Eddie Crook. As a piano player, he was my hero. And I knew he did session work in Nashville. And I asked, “How much would it cost for us to go into the studio and demo some of my songs?” And he told me that [amount].

Then here’s what I asked him—I didn’t know any better—I said, “Do you think you could get the three other guys from the Goodman band to play?”

He said, “Sure!”

So we show up in Nashville, and there’s Eddie Crook, Rabbit Easter, Bruce Droit, and James Gordon Freeze, ready to play. We’d learned all the songs trio style—there were twelve of them—so we virtually had a little Dianne / Tim / Gail record, is what we ended up having. But “Boundless Love” was on there, “Jesus I Believe What You Said About Heaven” was on there, “Turn Your Back” was on there. “Turn Your Back” was the first Cathedral cut I ever had. So it was a good investment!

That year at Quartet Convention—

DJM: 1981?

Dianne: Yeah, ’cause it was that year we made the record—I had a bunch of those little tapes (is what we had then)—and I put one in Kirk Talley’s pocket. He was screening songs for the Cathedrals at that time. It was a momentous thing that I did, ’cause I was able to go with them when they were on the ascendant.

DJM: Now I read somewhere that you submitted songs to the Cathedrals a number of times before they actually cut any. Is that right, or did I just remember wrong?

Dianne: There’s almost a story there. The truth is, the very first tape I gave them had “Turn Your Back” on it, and they recorded that. It also had “Jesus, I Believe What You Said About Heaven.” And that was their last Canaan record—they had that on there. Kirk later recorded it with the Talleys, and then The Trio recorded it again, when he was singing with Ivan and Anthony.

The story you’re probably talking about is right after that period, during ‘82 and ‘83, Bill Traylor started Riversong, that new label. And, of course, he signed those guys. They were planning to do the Live in Atlanta record.

I had written “We Shall See Jesus” in early 1982, and here was where I was coming from with it. Back in those days, Kirk was singing “I Know a Man Who Can,” and sang a lot. And I thought, “You know, this could be a new ballad for Kirk, because it’s got some range to it.”

So I sent it to him. And I didn’t hear anything back. I now know what that means—that they’ve passed on it. But I didn’t know the jargon then! But because I didn’t know any better, I sent it to him again. How green was I?

I said, “I think you need to listen again!” [Laughs] Oh, my! I probably would not do that now, but when you’re green …

But God was in it is all I know, because then I heard, “Well, we’re recording two of your songs, and we want you and Tim to come to Atlanta and be our guests for this live album.”

DJM: Did you know which ones?

Dianne: Yeah, they said, “We’re going to do ‘We Shall See Jesus’ and ‘I’m Going Home Someday.’” Remember that little song? [She breaks into song...] “I traveled the country doin’ one-night stands…”

DJM: Oh, yeah—did they do that first, or did Gold City?

Dianne: They did it first. And then Kirk pitched it to Gold City.

DJM: Did they have the publishing on it?

Dianne: They did. And here’s what’s so funny: You know, I had “Turn Your Back,” and then I had these two, and then Gold City … and I started thinking, “This is easy! It’s a piece of cake! Falls off of my fountain pen, shows up on a record!” [Laughs]

Well, I got grounded pretty quick, but anyway … we’re sitting here, milling around a little bit, and here comes Bill Traylor to me. And he said, “Are you Dianne?”

I said, “Yes.”

And he said, “You’re just not going to believe how great ‘We Shall See Jesus’ is. Wait till you hear Glen sing it.”

And I said, “Glen?” I was thinking Kirk.

And he said, “Wait till you hear it.”

I thought, “Glen? Okay.”

Well, we were sitting there, and they came out. So the first time they ever sang it in public was there. And of course, the crowd went crazy.

But we thought—and they did, too—that was because it was a live record. Because they had primed the crowd, “Go nuts, ’cause it’s a live record!”

Well, I was just stunned by what I heard.

And when we got to Quartet Convention that year, the same thing happened on the main stage. The same thing happened in the chapel service … an amazing thing happened in chapel. And what happened was, all the twenty years that they did it, it was always the same way. I sat in the Ryman, the last time I ever saw Glen, and it was their Farewell. And then I sat at his funeral, and watched him sing it [on video]. So Glen and I came full circle with it.

And you know that I’m not particularly a ballad writer. I write uptempo stuff—that’s my favorite thing to write.

And so many people say to me, “When are we gonna have another “We Shall See Jesus?” And I say, “For me, maybe never—I don’t know.” Because I’ve written a lot of big ballads since then, but not with the impact that one had. But those didn’t have the Cathedrals, and all of the charisma and the nostalgia and the love for the people that they had. It just all worked together.

DJM: Just as one example, when I first heard the Mark Trammell Trio sing, “When Mercy Came Down,” I thought, “If this had been in the Cathedrals’ hands…” Now the Mark Trammell Trio—they did an awesome job with it.

Dianne: They did!

DJM: And I loved it! But I thought, “You know what? If the Cathedrals had done this one in 1983…”

Dianne: Maybe, maybe!

I’ll tell you, when they did my “High and Lifted Up” in the early ’90s, I thought, “Maybe that’ll be it.” And it came out great, and people loved it, but it didn’t replace the other one.

And what’s interesting is now, with Glen gone, it’s so closely identified with him, that when they have the reunions of all the guys that were in the group, they never include it, because no one thinks they can sing it.

And I tell ‘em—in fact, I tell Gerald, “You’re the one that’s supposed to sing it,” because he’s got that big voice. I say, “I really think you’re the one.” Not because it’s mine, but I think the people feel like they need to hear that song.

DJM: I’ve never gotten to hear it live.

Dianne: Have you not?

DJM: Because the Cathedrals retired before I ever discovered Southern Gospel music.

Dianne: Oh, honey!

DJM: So I never got to hear that song live.

Dianne: Well, I’ll tell you—I don’t know…

DJM: I should beg Gerald Wolfe!

Dianne: He really should be the one, because he’s got that big voice. And interesting, never in all the years they did it did they ever encore that song. Because it would’ve been anticlimactic to do so. George just instinctively knew that. It just…Glen sang it all those years the very same way.

And I don’t know what it would have been like to sit out there as a fan and hear it. I watched it. But to sit there and know that the Lord gave it to you … indescribable.

You’d think someday, it would be old hat … never, never, never. It’s always like the first time, it really is. Always like the first time.

DJM: So what was it at the start, and what is it now, that motivates you to not just write down an idea, but to put hours and hours into refining that idea? What is it that drives you to write a Gospel song?

Dianne: I love it with a passion. I’m excited about it. And what’s amazing is, I always have been, but I’m getting worse. I get worse the older I get!

The older you get, you’re also aware that you don’t know how much time you have left. And it’s about not necessarily leaving a legacy, but it’s, “Lord, I don’t know if I’ll always be in my right mind. I don’t know if I’ll always be able to put two words together.”

But I can only speak for myself, and this is a beautiful thing God’s doing. And I think He does it for everyone who’s been faithful to what He’s called them to: I have more ideas now than ever! I’m writing more songs now than I ever did, partly because I’ve begun to co-write. That’s only been in very recent years—I’d never done it before. And He’s growing my gift in my sunset years. It’s a beautiful thing to watch.

And it’s interesting because, as I said, I work full time. I don’t necessarily dedicate time to write. I just write when I write, when it comes. I write a lot in the car—that’s a great place to write.

That’s the big thing—I absolutely love it. And especially now, I’ve begun to co-write with some really young people. And I hadn’t thought about the mentoring thing. But I realize that that’s what God’s allowed me to do. There are three young men, especially…

DJM: Scotty Inman is one of them?

Dianne: Scotty, especially. I’ve just begun to write with Joseph.

DJM: Joseph Habedank?

Dianne: Yes.

DJM: Oh! I cannot wait to hear those!

Dianne: Well, I’ll tell you, Scotty is my little grandboy, and I’m coming back to him. Dustin Sweatman is the other. I have a heart for Bradley Littlejohn, with Paid in Full—I have a heart for all those boys, ’cause they’re from New Albany, Mississippi, and I helped him with one.

Joseph and I have been trying to get together for ever so long, and couldn’t. And we were at Songfest—Frank Arnold brings a huge three-day deal to Jackson, Tennessee every year—and he said, “Dianne, it’s so hard for us to get together!” I work, and he’s gone a lot.

He said, “Maybe we could just write one on the Internet—you know how you do. Actually, I do have an idea.”

I said, “What’s the idea?” And with you as a songwriter, this is gonna give you a chill.

And he said, “Footprints on the Water.”

I said, “Yes, I think you have an idea!” And his little ol’ face, it was just shinin’. You know how when someone’s excited, their face lights up…

Well, I live in Dyersburg, about forty miles away. I had almost the whole lyric done before I got back to my house.

And my idea was, You know, we’re gonna make this a different story, I’m gonna make this from the vantage point of another boat full of fishermen …

DJM: Wow—that’s neat!

Dianne: What am I seeing? Am I seeing what I think I’m seeing?

They realize they were being storm-tossed. And then in the moonlight they see this figure. Who is that?

And so I had that whole lyric done. And two days later, he sends me an mp3. He doesn’t play an instrument. So he sings you his melody, with his finger popping. And that child is full of rhythm!

And I’m gonna sing you kind of how the chorus goes, and you’re gonna say, “Dianne, this is your tune, and your groove—it’s just like you!”

[Breaks into song...] There were footprints on the water

Who’s that walkin’ on the sea

Footprints on the water

Looks like the Son of God to me

Master of the Wind, commander of the storm

We’ve seen Him on the shores of Galilee

Oh, with those footprints on the water

Looks like the Son of God to me!

It has a line with watching Him walk, “He didn’t sink, He didn’t drown.”

DJM: Wow!

Dianne: Can you say Arthur Rice? Sounds just like him!

And I teased Joseph about that. I said, “Oh, Arthur will kill me if the Perrys do it!”

But we just got the demo. So we won’t speculate at this point. But the reason why I’d love for the Perrys to do it, is they’ve never done anything like that, that showcases the ways this kid can sing a bluesy quartet song.

DJM: Joseph can sing a bluesy quartet song?

Dianne: Oh, well, you should hear him sing this one!

And here’s what happened: He got Matthew Holt in to play the piano. Hot track on that demo!

Well, not long after that, I had another idea and wanted to write. I have a cousin that was raised like a sister to me. She has two daughters. And my brother’s daughter, Rachel, is like my daughter. And these girls are young women now, with children of their own. And you know, the travails of trying to live life … And I mentioned to my cousin once in an email, “You know, these girls are gonna keep us on our knees all of our life, because that’s what comes from love.”

And I thought, “Gee, I think I would write that!”

“Grace” started with that—you know, God could have killed Adam and Eve on the spot, but He extended grace.

So when I finished that lyric, I thought, “You know, Joseph, if you’ve got a big ol’ fat ballad in you, what can you do here?” ‘Cause I’m just trying to match, you know. I almost sent it to somebody else, and I thought, “No.” I really felt impressed of the Lord to send it to Joseph.

Three days later…amazing ballad melody. Big, big.

So both times, I took a day, went to Nashville, and met him there. I played piano and he did the vocal, so we could get a work disc turned in. So, you know how I talk and this won’t surprise you, I said, “Okay, you line up all those boys you write with, and you tell them it’s all over between you and them because I’m taking over!” [Laughter.]

He knew what I meant. That was my way of saying he was great, and he is.

Scotty … Tim and I lived across the river from Memphis when Clayton was still singing with his brothers.

DJM: As “The Inmans”?

Dianne: As the Inmans. And little bitty toddler Scotty, about this high [gestures to about hip height], stocky built little guy, blond curls—had curly hair and always has—and big ol’ china blue eyes, most darlin’ little boy. And I don’t have children. Well, he took up with me like that, and I would just beg Clayton and his wife to give him to me, I wanted him so bad! Who knew, who knew?

Well, he grew up, and he hadn’t been with Triumphant very long. And I remember seeing them in Alabama. I love Jeff Stice like a son, I love Clayton. And this was really a prophetic thing that happened, ’cause I had not co-written.

DJM: You had not co-written with anybody prior to this?

Dianne: I really hadn’t. I think this started off.

That sweet boy came to me and said, “Miss Dianne”—he knew how to work me too!—he said, “Miss Dianne, I’m trying to get started writing. Will you help me?”

And can I look at that little sweet face and say, “I’ve never been co-writing, and I don’t think I’m gonna like it?”

See, I didn’t think I would like it. Mark [Trammell] told me I wouldn’t like it. He said, “See, you’ve had the control all these years, and when you write with somebody, it’s a collaborating thing.”

But I said, “Well, honey, sure, I’ll help you!”

And here’s how much I knew about co-writing: The first time he sent me an idea he had, and he had about two lines, before I turned around, I had finished it! Didn’t plan to finish it, just started comin’!

I called him back and said, “I got it!” He said, “Well, I like it!”

Well, finally it dawned on me, You’re supposed to grab a verse and let the other person grab a verse, and all that. I just didn’t know any better.

I was writing for Centergy in those days, and Niles Borop is a marvelous motivator. He’s perfect at growing young talent. And he’s perfect at bringing something out of you that’s new to you. And he encouraged me, also.

One of my first co-write sessions—Scotty and I were writing over the phone, but I actually, formally went to Nashville with my little tablet and pencil, and here’s who I sat down with: Daryl Williams and John Darin Rowsey. I already loved both of them. Well, we talked about the first hour and a half, just having a big time, before we really got started. And what was so funny—Daryl had written with John that morning, and he was supposed to leave, and I was supposed to write with John in the afternoon.

And when Daryl got ready to go, he said, “Boy, I’d sure like to stay, but I promised my kids I’d take them to” wherever. Well, about twenty minutes passed, and he came back in, and he said, “I told my kids I couldn’t do it!”

So Daryl came in and he said, “I got a chorus.”

So here I am, first time—maiden voyage—in the room with people, where the pressure’s on, all the way over there. I thought, “Oh, nothing will come!”

He said, “I got this little chorus” [Dianne bursts into song]

It ain’t gonna worry me long…

Did you hear it? On the Talleys record.

DJM: Yeah.

Dianne: Well, here’s what happened. We finished it in no time, and we had so much fun. You could tell the kind—it was anything but high church. Someone came up with a word, and we said, “No, that’s too high for ‘em…this is low church, and that won’t work!”

Well, then we got through, and Daryl sits down at the piano, and we worked out the arrangement and sang trio style, and had so much fun! And the work tape could have been on the radio, I swear it was so good!

And all I was thinking of, “I’m a co-writer. I’m gonna love it. It’s all gonna be just like this.” Turn out something great, have a big ol’ time, go home, get it cut.

And the Talleys cut it from that work tape, ’cause I gave it to them at convention that year.

So I can’t say every session’s been that much fun, but I have found my level with a few writers. That’s been a great blessing for me to do. I still love it when it’s just the Lord and me. But … it’s really fun, it stretches you.

DJM: How many songs have you written … approximately, if you don’t know exactly?

Dianne: I tell you, I wouldn’t know exactly. When Tim and I were living in Memphis—I thought I would never get over this, and Tim thought he never would—I had my songs numbered in a notebook. This was before computer days. I was working back in our home church in Blytheville, Arkansas, working there with a group of teenage girls. I had named them the “Hallelujah Chorus”—I thought that was such a cute little name. And they were doing some of my songs, and I was playing piano, and some of them were those.

And I had them in a notebook, a three-ring notebook, by the piano there in our house. And the notebook came up missing and I couldn’t find it anywhere. I thought I might have left it at the church we were going to. We turned the house upside down. And finally, he came over with this look on his face, and he said, “Do you remember that I used to keep a box of kindling down by the piano?”

And I said, “Yes.”

And he said, “Do you think you could have ever just laid it down there, maybe? I think I may have tossed it, in that box.”

I’m not sure how many songs there were at that time, but here’s what’s so sad: I had some of those lyrics on scraps of paper in the piano bench, and I was able to get some of ‘em back, but some of ‘em were just gone. I have to tell you, I didn’t cry as much as he did, it grieved him so bad!

But that aside, now that I’ve begun to number, it’s close to 600. That’s not a huge body of work, as long as I’ve been writing—got my first song recorded in ‘76. But before I started co-writing, writing twenty a year was about what I would do. And it’s about what Rodney does. But interestingly, last year I turned in sixty songs to Daywind. And this year I’ve turned in about fifty. So the co-writing thing has really grown the product.

So depending on how the Lord leaves me here, and how long He keeps giving me songs, I don’t know if it’ll break a thousand. Now I heard Dottie Rambo had written two or three thousand, I don’t know. But Dottie would probably tell you if she was still here that she didn’t know if all of ‘em were wonderful or not. You don’t know how great some of ‘em are. And I don’t know how great some of mine are.

DJM: About how many of those have been cut?

Dianne: It would be a false picture of the older ones, because they never really got pitched. But Rick [Shelton] tells me that I have a cut rate of about 65%-70%. So that’s a blessing, ’cause that’s pretty high.

DJM: So there’s 30%-35% of your songs that people are probably never going to hear?

Dianne: Yeah, probably never hear.

DJM: Hmm.

Dianne: And I think this way sometimes, especially when my husband was alive. He always was minister of music at the churches where we were—he was self-taught. I learned back in those days that some of the songs I wrote back then, only Tim was ever gonna sing. Really blessed a lot of people. And I think sometimes the songs He gives me are just for me at a time.

I think they probably all have value, but I don’t know that they all have commercial value. I like to think that someday, a bunch of ‘em will still get cut.

Unlike Kyla [Rowland], who has such great success getting her older songs cut . . .

But you know, the neat thing about our music: Country music and secular music, there are waves of what’s popular. You dig a great Southern Gospel song up—it was great in 1980, it was great in 1990, and it’s still great! And somebody can cut a new track on it, with a little bit of a different twist, and it’s brand new again, ’cause our subject matter doesn’t change.

She has great luck with that.

Some of the ones I’ve written with Rusty (Golden) have stretched my boundaries. I write the lyrics and he writes the melody most of the time. He hears melody like nobody else—these gorgeous melodies that may not always sound Southern Gospel, but they are perfect for the lyrics. I like to think there’s greatness in them, and someday—even the ones that don’t fit Southern Gospel or CCM now—somebody’s gonna discover that stuff and say, “My, my! Where did this stuff come from?”

Rusty and I have what we think is a great one in the works, being recorded by the Booth Brothers.

DJM: In fact, of all the lyrics you’ve ever done, that one may come closer to “We Shall See Jesus” than anything else you’ve done . . ..

Dianne: I may have told you this, but I send Rusty the lyrics ahead of time. I had come that day to work on something else. But I had that lyric on me, and I intended to do that one by myself, ’cause I had the chorus. The chorus you heard was fully mine, lyrics and tune. And I had something on the verses, but I didn’t like it.

And here’s what I say on such an occasion. “It needs the Golden touch, that’s what it needs.”

He started playing … [Dianne hums a tune you'll all know well in a few months!] It was just right. I never impose a tune on him, because that’s his forté. He’s Rodgers, I’m Hammerstein. I said, “Let me play you what I already heard on the chorus, and let me tell you what I think.”

And he said, “It’s done! That’s what it is, right there. That’s what it has to be.”

And he said, “I think it’s done too fast. We never work this fast.”

And I said, “No, it’s finished, it’s finished.” It’s one of those moments when songwriters are together when it gets real still, and you know God is there. And so the Booth Brothers…they’re so excited about it.

DJM: So of all the songs you’ve written, which are your favorites as far as hearing a group sing it, and which are your favorites as far as what the lyrics personally mean to you?

Dianne: This is in no particular order … some of the ones where I have loved the recorded version: First of all, I’m a musician and I get real hung up on the track. In fact, I’ll say to Gail [her friend who was attending NQC with her], “I want you to listen for this little thing that the bass player’s gonna do.”

And she’ll say, “I don’t hear that! I’m listening to the vocal!”

And I’m like, “Well, I’ll get around to the vocal, but I’m listening to that percussion, and I’m listening to all that.”

So there’s some that I love for that. But some of the ones I play over and over: I play Gold City’s “Keep Me On the Wheel” with slide guitar. I love what Jonathan did with it.

“He Said” is one of my favorites. I think it was crafted well; I love to write preacher songs, and I like that one.

I listen to “The Old White Flag” till I’ve overdosed on it, because it’s infectious to me.

DJM: I’m hoping it’ll win song of the year.

Dianne: Well, I saw what you said, God love you! But it calls up the imagery of Clayton doing all his thing. And a combination of that plus, I just love the way it turned out. Did I tell you that it’s the ringtone on my telephone?

DJM: I don’t think so.

Dianne: Before I leave this room I’m gonna play it for you. My niece figured it out.

Arthur Rice’s vocal of “Pray For Me” … I think it’s the strongest Arthur Rice vocal I’ve ever heard, and what is that sayin’?! I love that.

I love the brand new one that’s six and a half minutes long that he’s doin’. Doctrinally, it speaks to me as much as anything I’ve done, “When You Look at Me.”

I say to my Sunday School class sometimes: “I know what everybody sees when they look at me. A gal who’s rapidly aging, more overweight than she needs to be, has some back trouble, has four pairs of eyeglasses, needs a new body real bad.”

That’s not what God sees when He looks at me. He sees me righteous. And I wanted to develop that. So it’s a vertical praise song to the Lord. I wanted to express the idea … I like bling, can you tell? I like glamorous clothes.

DJM: Oh … yes, I was just trying to figure out what bling was. I get it.

Dianne: Bling, bling, bling. The people that would buy a watch like that … That’s my earthly kind of clothes that I like. But when I was lost, filthy rags was all I had. And He took those away and tossed them aside, and clothed me with the righteousness of Jesus Christ. And that’s what He sees.

When I played that for Arthur, two years ago, right here, he had such a look come over him. It really spoke to him. And he said this to me, and I never forgot it: “Dianne, this is the best thing you’ve ever written. It’s the best song you’ve ever written.” He still says that. So that one is special to me.

The Cathedrals ones, the nostalgia value … I’ll tell you, there’s one of theirs that I play over and over, and you may not remember it, ’cause you’re just young.

DJM: But I do have every recording that the Cathedrals have ever released.

Dianne: Well, then you know [breaks into song...]

Out of the starry sky

From that bright home on high…

DJM: I love that song!

Dianne: Well, it was actually singled about ‘95. It’s the last radio single I ever had with them. It was on Raise the Roof in ‘94, then on Reunion in ‘95.

I had three on Raise the Roof: “No News is Good News,” “Never Before Never Again,” and “Oh Come Along.”

DJM: “Never Before Never Again” is on the Reunion video, but not on the CD.

Dianne: I know! I was there that night at the Ryman when they did all that … but “Oh Come Along” is just a little bouncy song.

And here’s what’s so cute about that. McCray Dove loves my older Cathedrals songs, and he likes that kind of old stuff that I like. And he said: “Dianne, you really drove me crazy, and you didn’t know it.”

And I said, “Why?”

And he said, “I was lookin’ through every old Stamps-Baxter songbook I had, tryin’ to find that song! I just knew they’d dug up a gem from the past that I didn’t know, and I’d thought I knew all of them! And it was brand new!”

I said, “That’s the best compliment I ever had!” Because I love to write new songs that sound old. I love that one, I love “Master Builder” … and let me tell you why I love “Master Builder.” I always hear the full orchestration in my head. And that’s the first recorded song of mine that got the full orchestra treatment. We had done the demo of that song over here at the Ben Speer studio. Mark had sung the demo of that song, and Roger and I were there, thinkin’ we would send it to the Nelons—because we did not think the Cathedrals were gonna record a rock-flavored Southern Gospel song!

And we were sayin’, who’re we gonna get to do it, knowin’ all the time that Mark owned that song, we just knew.

Well, as not luck would have it, Bill Gaither produced their next project. Roger played it for him, and he loved it. And he talked Glen and George into doin’ that song. And it’s the title.

DJM: So he had to persuade them? Were they reluctant?

Dianne: Well, I don’t know that they were, but he showed them, “This is what y’all need to do. Show ‘em you can do this young kinda stuff!”

I don’t know if the other guys had played it or not. But he was who God used to get that done. But it was the first time I ever heard that big treatment. And when Roger said it to me, he said, “Di, this is the one you’ve been waiting for. You’ve got to hear this.”

They did that last chorus three times. It’s really long.

I still love to write that rock flavor, like that one, “The Rock’s Between the Hard Place and You,” and on the new Kingsmen album, “He Picks up a Beggar on the Way.” But I love to write that scaldin’ track! Mark calls it my rock ‘n’ roll Gospel. I guess that sounds bad, but that’s what he calls it. But I love that.

It’s hard to pick among your children!

I love “We Shall See Jesus” because of what it means, and what it’s done for people.

I’ll tell you, one I love is “That Little Baby.” That taught me that a choir loves to tape their toes when they’re doing a Christmas musical. Most Christmas programs, it’s all slow. But a lot of church choirs did it, and when they did it, and when they get into it, their little faces just start to smile.

This will make you smile, knowing the fan that you are: The Kingdom Heirs just recorded that one.

DJM: “That Little Baby”!

Dianne: They’ve always wanted to do it. They were so sure it was a Christmas song, and when Gold City put it out and charted it, they said [snapped fingers] “Missed our chance!”

You know, years and years ago, when Bill and Dottie were writing big, everybody sang a great song. But that was before the top 40 came out, that format. The top 40 radio format changed all that. But I’m finally going to get to hear what it sounds like for them to do that. Arthur Rice’ll just wear it out!

DJM: The top 40 radio format being more where a song belongs to a group instead of to the genre?

Dianne: Well, what it is, is back in the old days, when you’d buy records, and someone sent the DJs a record, they just played everything on it. And the fans just kinda picked what was gonna be the hit by what they requested.

Now, though, the powers-that-be, whoever they are, decide what’s gonna be the single, most of the time.

It turns out to be that the songs people know you by are your singles. Because somewhere along the way is a non-performing writer. They’ll generally figure out most of the songs that are mine, because the name’s in the Singing News. But it’s like…unless they buy the record, they’ll never know about “When You Look at Me,” which will never go to radio, because it’s six and a half minutes long. “Keep Me on the Wheel” never went to the radio.

DJM: Really?

Dianne: “We Shall See Jesus” never went to radio!

DJM: Now I knew that.

Dianne: People think it was #1. Never went!

I’ll tell you, what did make the chart that was never singled was “Turn Your Back.” I saved a little chart from the Quartet Convention. It was the last one in there, but it was never singled, and it was there. They were already getting hot by then.

But that changed it. If someone has had a hit on the radio out of it, groups won’t do it. Even the B-level groups and the weekend warrior groups that call me, some of them will say that all they want’s original material. And I’m goin’, “Well that’s a mistake, ’cause most of my stuff has been cut, except the ones that have been around!”

And then they’ll say, “Well, we wouldn’t mind doin’ one if it’s just an album cut, but not if it’s closely associated with somebody.”

DJM: That’s just something I’d like to see change.

Dianne: Well, I’d love to see some things change like that, too.

DJM: Every now and then, you get exceptions.

Dianne: Yeah, a few times.

DJM: “Calvary Answers for Me.” Signature Sound did a great job with it, but when the Perrys decided that they were gonna try their hand at it … well, let’s just say that it’s the song that got me hooked on the Perrys. And then, with Joseph singing it now, I heard them do it a couple of months ago, and that was one of the most wonderful moments of the year for me.

Dianne: Absolutely! And they have a way with a power ballad. They have since the Mike Bowling days, and then through the Loren days. And if anybody wondered if Joseph could step in … I don’t think they wonder anymore! He owns that lead!

DJM: Are there any songs in Southern Gospel that come to mind that, when you hear them the first time, you’re like, “I wish I’d had that idea, I wish I’d written that song”? Or does that not happen?

Dianne: “Four Days Late.”

“Day Three.” Which I find out my co-writer friend Jerry Salley wrote. Greatly crafted song.

“He’d Still Been God,” my favorite Rodney Griffin song of all time.

The great hook is the key. If you’ve got writing chops at all, you can develop a great hook.

DJM: Somebody was talking to me in the vendors’ hall, just a few hours ago, saying “Rodney Griffin never wrote another ‘My Name is Lazarus.’” But I said, “He did write ‘He’d Still Been God.’”

Dianne: See, I love Lazarus … but the way “He’d Still Been God Moves,” nobody else could do it like that. And they have a new track to it—I just heard the new track. But to me, that one’s just great.

I love Aaron Wilburn’s writing. “Four Days Late” is a great example.

DJM: Do you think that in Heaven, we will sometimes sing the songs of earth?

Dianne: I think so.

DJM: I sure hope so!

Dianne: I think so.

I’ll tell you what I think; I have two theories. I don’t think songwriters will be able to quit writing songs up there. I don’t think we’ll be able to quiet! I think we’ll want to put down on Heavenly parchment, [whispers] what it looks like up here. Ooh, what it looks like!

Then we won’t be sayin’, “I’m gonna see,” we’ll be saying, “I’ve just been with Jesus! I’ve just asked Him everything I wanted to know, and He told me!

“Where have you been? I’ve been sitting in God’s lap. You know, He’s my Daddy, and I can talk to Him any time I want to!”

Guess who I just sat with? David! We wrote one together—he played the harp!

DJM: Now that’s a thought that never occurred to me. Dianne Wilkinson co-writing with David. But why not?

Dianne: Why not?

I’ll say, “David, I know you like praise, and I know you dance, ’cause the Bible says so. Let’s write an upbeat song up here!”

Angel Band … I know it’s supposed to be like a band of brothers, but I think it means band!

So I don’t think we’re gonna quit writing. I know there’s a new song that the angels can’t sing, but I think the Lord’s gonna let us write.

And I think when you take these great old preachers, these silver-haired giants of the Lord, I don’t think they’re gonna be able to turn off the preachin’. They won’t have to preach about sin and repentance anymore, but I don’t think they’ll be able to stop preaching about everything Jesus did for us, and what a great God we have!

I just believe that whatever you loved that had to do with worship, had to do with the King’s work, I just don’t think you can cut it off that quick! I just think in Heaven, we’ll keep doin’ some of those things that we loved to do.

There’s gonna be music there! There’s gonna be music!

Maybe everybody will be a writer up there. Wouldn’t that be great? So many people want to, and don’t have the gift … but yeah, there’ll be a bunch of us sitting around with a golden quill.

Oh, that’ll be great! I can’t wait!

DJM: This is jumping topics entirely, but I wanted to get this in, get this down somewhere. I remember a couple of years ago you were writing a column for a magazine, and you told the story behind the song Signature Sound did, “This Old Place.” But the magazine went out of print, and that column went down, and that story’s nowhere to be found. I was wondering if you could retell that story?

Dianne: That’s a very sweet story. I should have mentioned that song; I’m glad you brought it up. I don’t know why it didn’t come back—I guess because you can never think of all your songs.

My daddy came back from World War II a different person. My mother says that a man came back who looked like my daddy, but it wasn’t my daddy. And he was drinking. My daddy was never able to overcome that. And that was back in the ’40s, before there was any Al-Anon or any help for alcoholics like that.

So my daddy was a full-blown alcoholic, when he was still a young man. He was a medic; he was at the Battle of the Bulge, and he carted his friends away, what was left of ‘em. And we know now what happens with many who come back from war, but back then, I don’t think they knew how to help people like that.

Bottom line, I’m a child of divorce, and no one my age had divorced parents when we grew up. So my mother and her two little ones moved into my grandmother’s house. My granddaddy had built that house, in Blytheville, Arkansas, in the ’40s. It was on a corner of a little, sweet neighborhood there, right around the corner from the Calvary Baptist Church. So we moved into that house, and I lived all of my life in that house, till I married.

After my grandparents passed on, my mother never re-married. She lived in that house until 2001, when she began to be so weak in her legs that we had to move her to Dyersburg. So “family home” doesn’t begin to say … I grew up being raised by my godly grandmother. She taught me about Jesus, she sent me for my first piano lesson.

I love every blade of grass growing there. There’s just something about that place—of course, everyone feels that way.

Well, my brother and I were put into the position of our mother had already moved in with him. His wife doesn’t work outside the home, and I do, so she lives with him. No one is supposed to have to do the final cleanup at your family home while your parent’s still alive. We had to pack all those things—our mother wasn’t able. We would go up on Saturdays, and pack up all those things.

We didn’t know how we would get it sold. It was run-down, and old. And as it turns out, my mother’s sweet neighbors bought the house for a son of theirs. And so I was on my way up there to help my brother do the final cleanup and turn the key over.

And, Daniel, my heart was all the way down in my knees. I just didn’t think I could do it.

I was focusin’ on the boards, and the nails, and the roof. And the Lord began to speak to me with that song. He got me to focus on the people in that house who were waiting for me.

I got the whole thing before I got there. It got me through that afternoon; I don’t think I could have done it any other way.

Well, this was in the Centergy days. And it was so personal that I almost didn’t send it to Niles Borop, my publisher, ’cause I thought, “This is so my song; this happened to me.” And I made a Gospel song out of it, but it was really about my homeplace.

But I told him about it, and he said, “No, just send it, just send it.” And that’s back when I was playing my own demos. I just played the simple piano. It’s really one of Terry [Franklin]’s stunning vocals.

When any of those Cathedrals boys were lookin’, back before we could mp3 stuff, unlike we’re taught to pitch songs, they wanted to hear virtually everything I had, so they could pick and choose from a disc. So I sent Ernie probably ten or twelve songs. He picked “Pray For Me”—their version is bluesy—and he picked that one. He said, “That song touches me, because I’ve lived that song.”

So he recorded it—sings it like an angel. And what happened—I still get emails from people about that song. And I thought, “I was so wrong!” Because everyone will live “This Old Place.” You’ve either already lived it, or you’re gonna.

I got an email from a lady a few months back. And she said, “We’re about to have to tear down our church, because we’re going to have to rebuild. We don’t believe we can stand it. We know the church is not the bricks, but we just don’t think we can stand it. We would like to use your song in our program to build our new church, because we think it’ll help us get through it.”

And I thought, “Well, what a good idea, to apply it to the church.”

I replied, “I’m honored, and I hope you will, but I want you to let me know how it goes.”

So later on, she emailed me; she said, “We broke ground. It’s goin’ up, and it was a happy occasion, and not a sad occasion, because we were able to focus on the people, on their influence, and where they were.” She said, “I don’t think we could have done it…”

So to say it’s special … there’s no way to describe it.

DJM: Have you ever had a Vocal Band cut?

Dianne: I’ve never had a Vocal Band cut. And I’ve always loved Guy, but with Michael…really want one with Michael.

DJM: What are some of your songs that went to radio, songs everybody knows, that took the longest to get cut? I know “Boundless Love” was obviously one, that waited nearly ten years, I think. What are some of the other ones?

Dianne: You know, it’s interesting. With most of mine, if they’re strong, they get picked up pretty quick.

Because here’s the way I do. When I’m hooked up with an exclusive publisher, which is now Daywind, they do pitching of course. But with the tried and true groups with whom I have a track record, and you know who those people are—they’re quartet boys, mostly—all of the offshoots of the Cathedrals, whatever configuration, all those boys—and the Kingdom Heirs, Triumphant, just so many. I have continued to pitch directly to all those people.

And a lot of them still like for me to just go ahead and send a disc with a lot on it. The Kingsmen did three of mine, this time. It’s the first time in their history that anybody has ever had three on one record. Ray just told me that this week.

Phillip, their lead singer, wanted songs. And he said, “I want everything you’ve got.” I sent him a disc with probably 15, 16 songs on it. So either that or one at a time.

And if I’m pitching straight to them and I have a track record, I know what they want from me. Well, Phillip called me back and said, “I like all these!”

I said, “Well, honey, I handpicked ‘em for you!” Now he loves country Gospel, so I had some on there that were kinda country, and I had others on there that wasn’t really country, but I knew that he would like it.

DJM: But they gave it a little bit of a country twang, enough where you could hear how a country person could like it…

Dianne: Well, it could be. He liked all those. And when I send those along, the ones they pick, they cut ‘em, or they hold ‘em for the next one they do.

Now the ones they don’t … I’ll tell you this cute story. When we went to the SoGospelNews awards thing, back in the spring, I knew I wasn’t gonna win writer again, ’cause I had won the year before. I knew it was gonna be Marty’s year. But I still wanted to go.

So Gary Casto was there. And he said, “We’re lookin’ right now. We’ve never done a Dianne song, but we need some good quartet songs.”

I said, “Come to my car!” I had a bunch of demos.

I sat him down, put the CDs on, and he put a hold on “Beggar on the Way,” “They Went to Pray,” and one of mine that you’ve not heard yet, which I hope you hear soon—it’s a quartet song, think about the rapture now, “Wanted Dead or Alive.” [breaks into song]

Jesus shouts the proclamation,

Wanted dead or alive…

Well, he put that one on hold. Back to the studio, passed on “Beggar,” passed on “They Went to Pray.” Well, the Kingsmen turned right around and cut ‘em.

There’s a song of mine called “I Believe, I Believe, I Believe.” It’s a swingy little Cathedrals-style song:

I wanna live like I know where I’m goin’

I wanna love like Jesus loves me

I wanna sail like the wind’s never blowin’

That kind of thing. Great demo.

Well, I played it for Rodney last year. What Rodney and I like to do is to sing our new ones to each other. We’ve done it for years.

Now I had the iPod, so he didn’t have to hear me. And he was sayin’, “I think we’re gonna hold that one! Is that one available?”

I said, “Yeah!”

Well, I hadn’t been to Arthur yet. So when Arthur heard it, he just fell out, fell out. I said, “Rodney just put it on hold.”

He said, “Well, we’re gonna go down there and talk to Rodney. He’ll pass on it at the last minute, and put one of his on it, and then I’m gonna get it! So go down there and tell him!”

So he took me down by the arm, and said, “Okay, let’s barter over this song.” He said, “You won’t do it, you won’t do it!” Rodney said, “We will, we will!”

They didn’t.

Arthur had to give it up.

DJM: The Kingdom Heirs didn’t do it?

Dianne: No—Greater Vision didn’t do it. And the Kingdom Heirs had already cut, and won’t cut again for two years.

Well, Mark Trammell’s got it on hold now.

Arthur said, “What did you say?”

I said, “Well, he’s looking right now.”

He said, “I can’t believe you didn’t save that for me!”

Bottom line, I know I’ve got a cut on that one.

So through the process of pitching—Rick Shelton pitches like crazy, especially to people I don’t have a real personal relationship with. But I pitch to my tried and true boys, and as a consequence, they get picked up.

DJM: Now speaking of your tried and true boys, I didn’t want the interview to go by without some reference to the Kingdom Heirs. Well, I know we’ve had brief references, but when did they first cut one of your songs, and how did it build from there?

Dianne: I’ll tell you what—this is funny. I have to tell you, Steve French is unique among all my friends. Steve French is a straight shooter.

DJM: He’ll tell you if he likes the song … or not?

Dianne: Well, whatever the issue on the table is. If you don’t want to know what he thinks, don’t ask him because in a kind way, he’ll just say it. He says what needs to be said. He’s just a straight shooter like that.

Well, I didn’t know Steve French. I knew who they were.

Out of the blue one day, I got a phone call. I remember thinking, “How’d he find out who I was, or where I lived?”

And then in his darlin’, East Tennessee Steve French voice, “Dianne, this is Steve French, Kingdom Heirs. We just cut your song.”

I said, “Which one?”

He said, “Well, Gold City never did anything with ‘I’ve Passed Over into Canaanland,’ and it just kinda laid on their record, and they never sent it to the radio, but we’ve always loved it, and we just cut it, and we’re gonna send it to the radio!”

I said, “Well, honey, help yourself!”

Instantly, we were in sync with each other. There is a personality thing about my humor that just blends with some people, and he was one of them.

And then, he said, “What else have you got? We liked that ‘un so well, send us something else!”

Well, I was just beginning to write for Centergy, and I had some new ones. And I put some on a disc, and mailed ‘em to him. Didn’t think much more about it.

A year or two later, I get a call. “Dianne, this is Steve French. We just cut five of them songs you sent me!” It was on the City of Light project.

They did “Salvation is the Miracle to Me” that Legacy did. They didn’t care if somebody else had done it, they’d do it anyway. They still kinda will.

They did “Common Little Things,” they did “City of Light,” they did the bluesy kind that Arthur loves so well, “Do You Know what it Means”—and, you see, N’Harmony had cut that.

DJM: Five on one record! That’s a lot!

Well, we got on a roll. The first thing I noticed is that when you get something back from the Kingdom Heirs, and it’s quartet, it’s so good you can’t stand it. ‘Cause whatever lineup they have, Steve and Arthur are the George and Glen today. They are the core. Whatever lineup, it’s still gonna be Kingdom Heirs. And it’s still gonna be traditional quartet, in-the-pocket.

DJM: And even so, this lineup they have today is one of the most incredible lineups they’ve ever put on stage.

Dianne: Amazing, amazing.

So, to make the long story long, from “I’ve Passed Over,” which was about 2000, till today, they have recorded thirty of my sings in that in that period of time. It didn’t hurt to have eight on True to the Call and nine on When You Look at Me.

There was another one that I’ve had three on, and I’ve had two on a couple. With them and with me, if supply and demand is the right kind of expression, I can get in Arthur’s head now. I can think in his head, if you know what I’m sayin’. I can tell by his eyes when I’m pitching to his face. I can tell by his breathin’ on the telephone when I’m singin’ one to him! I swear I can!

And so I know what they want, and I know when I finish one if it’s got their name on it. I just know.

And for some reason that I can’t explain, they love to do songs I come up with.

DJM: When you wrote “What We Needed,” did you know it was a generally great song, or did you know it was a Kingdom Heirs song?

Dianne: I’ll tell you what happened with “What We Needed”; it’s a neat story.

I had seen Cold Mountain—which, by the way, if you’ve got the Cold Mountain DVD, you just need to throw it away. You ever seen that movie? Civil War?

DJM: No. I have seen so few movies—a few independent Christian films and a very few classics, but I’m just such a Southern Gospel nerd that I don’t have time!

Dianne: Well, I’m a movie nut. Well, Cold Mountain is a Civil War drama. I watched it because I knew that I loved historical romance. It was Nicole Kidman and Jude Law. There was a scene in that movie when they’re in a little mountain town in North Carolina. They’re in a little white frame church, and they were singing, spirited singing.

In the plot line, this was the occasion where someone came whooping in on a horse, “They’ve declared war!” and the boys got all excited. But they were singin’ a song, and it was an old, old hymn.

I guess people did this in the day; they were keeping the beat with their right hand. [demonstrates] And the name of the song was, [breaks into song]

And I don’t have to stay here long

Oh, yes, my Lord, and I…

And I was going, “Oh, I like that!”

And I did some investigating, got online. And the singin’ was really being done by the Sacred Harp singers. They’re the people who are keeping the shape note thing goin’.

I got a phone number, and I called. An elderly gentleman picked up the phone. I was trying to get the hymnal that had that song. He said, “Yes, ma’am, I got it right here. It’s so much money; you send a check, I’ll send it to you.”

I thought, “God love him, he doesn’t even do the credit card thing!”

Well, I got it, and it’s full of that kind of song. And I will always … “What we Needed” was the next song after that. And it’s … [breaks into song]

We have never seen all through history

I know it was inspired by my love for that.

And then, I thought, “We’ve gotta change gears in the chorus. We’ve gotta quartet this thing into high gear.” But I will always believe that that hymn influenced that.

And when I got the demo in, I thought: “This is one of the greatest demos Terry’s ever done.” And I knew they would take it.

Through this time, I was sendin’ “Since Jesus Moved In,” and some of those other ones, and he was holding them just like that. And so when he got down to the final selection, of course, that was in the list. And he said, “We’re gonna single ‘Rock and a Hard Place’ first, but I’m telling you what, ‘What We Needed’ is gonna be the hit on this record.”

Arthur has the wisdom—he just knows. He said, “It’s gonna be a big song, I just know it.”

Well, I remember the first time I ever saw him do it in person, and up came the crowd, did like they do. And the cutest thing I ever heard about it, and you’ll appreciate this: Arthur has a friend. He called Arthur, and said, “You really should put a warning on that song: ‘Do not listen while driving.’”

I thought, “Oh, I like that!” And it’s true!

So I did know it was for them. And I’ll honestly say that I knew somebody would cut it, but I knew it needed their touch, because Arthur is such a modest man. Nobody knows, but he is a master producer, arranger. He knows exactly where the mod should be; he knows when it needs a false ending; he knows when to tear off another chorus. He knows all that instinctively. So I knew what he would do with it.

And there was a little bit of speculation about “I Want You to Know,” because that was co-written with Chris Binion. It’s a big ol’ barn-burning convention song, too, but he turned out to be right about “What We Needed.” All four singles did well, and they all had my name on it, by the grace of God.

And that’s one of my favorites, too. It just gets people excited. And the message—it’s what everybody needs, they just don’t know it. And I wanted to bring in the people of other religions; they don’t believe like we do, but that’s what they need, too. And He’d take them in any time they’d come. And it’s a song about the Gospel. And still, they just wear it out! [Said in a positive tone!]

DJM: Well, I’d probably better wrap it up. I could talk forever…

Dianne: Well, I’ve enjoyed it, Hon!

DJM: Any other thoughts or comments you wanted to share, in closing?

Dianne: Just that I have a burning desire to write, as long as I’m able to write well. I’ve talked to a few people whom I trust and value to say, “When I can’t do it anymore, pull me aside, and give me the word.”

They’re people who love me, and they say, “Oh, we don’t think we could ever do that!”

But I say, “Don’t let me be a fool, don’t let me start turning out junk just because I want to keep doing it.”

But, Mosie Lister’s like 88 years old. And he’s not turning out anything but great stuff. And if Dottie was here, she would be, too.

DJM: I saw Mosie earlier today, but I haven’t heard many new songs from him in the last few years.

Dianne: I have written two songs with Mosie Lister. [whispers] I cannot believe it!

Steve Mauldin got us together, ’cause Mosie had never done any co-writin’. And probably of everyone writing today, I’m the only one that’s doing the old-time kind that he would like. And I emailed him—he does email!—and he’s kind of a taciturn gentleman, doesn’t have a lot to say, you know. He sent me a lyric; it was called “The Amen Corner.” It was about a guy walking into a church and asking, “Y’all got an amen corner in here? That’s where I want to sit!”

So I put a little tune to it… [breaks into song]

Do you have an Amen corner in here….

That’s not been cut. Then we wrote another one, and I can’t remember its title right now. Through the process of the interchange and all that, I was calling him Mr. Mosie, because I thought, “I can’t say Mosie! That would be like walking up to Dad Speer and saying, ‘Hey, George! How ‘ya doin?’”

So he wrote me back and said, “If you call me Mr. Mosie, I don’t answer. You gotta call me Mosie.” And I’m thinking, “I don’t think I can!” But I got to where I could.

I’m still writing for the Gospel Music News online, by the way; it’s just all online. The U.S. Gospel News was the one before. Paul Boden was the publisher, and Paul died with cancer. He’d been my friend since I was in high school. He comes from northeast Arkansas; our groups sang together all those years.

So I wanted to interview him [Mosie]. So I emailed him the questions, and he answered. And I wanted a picture. And he sent me a beautiful color picture. He’s still got his beautiful hair; he’s still a handsome gentleman. And I wrote back and I said, “I have a problem! I don’t want to send the picture to those people; I want the picture myself!”

Well, about three days later, here came my picture of him! So here’s my mantel, if you’re looking in my den, which is my music room: The painting of Glen and George, which everyone has; mine is framed beautifully. And here’s my eight-by-ten of Mosie. And I think that’s fitting. I’ve got other stuff there, too.

I still can’t believe that I’ve written with him. And when we looked down on the songwriter’s showcase, and he’s right down there and I’m right here, I’m goin’, “Lord, how did you bless an old Arkansas girl to that extent!”

When I was little and going to singings and lovin’ it, I never dreamed, I never dreamed … it’s been a marvelous thing.

And that’s what’s been on my mind now. I want to take the time I have left and still get the doctrinal truth on paper, get the Gospel message on paper, get it out. Southern is the only people doin’ that, Daniel, to that deep degree.

DJM: Yes. You’ll get occasional deep songs elsewhere …

Dianne: but it’s not the norm.

DJM: Like the song the McKameys cut, “How Deep the Father’s Love for Us”—what an awesome lyric!

Dianne: It is.

DJM: But that’s the rare exception.

Dianne: My favorite song from another genre—and my brother sings it like an angel— [breaks into song...]

Fly to Jesus

Fly to Jesus…

Have you ever heard it? It has no chorus—it has the most beautiful melody, and it’s about the seasons of life. When you’re happy, laugh with Jesus. When you’re sad, cry with Jesus. It’s the prettiest thing I ever heard.

DJM: Was it the Chris Rice song?

Dianne: I don’t know.

DJM: ‘Cause I had a friend who sang a song “Come to Jesus.”

Dianne: That’s it! You talk about one I wish I had written—that’s high on that list.

Well, I want to get that message out while there’s still time. I know we’re in the last days. I know there’s not much time. The Holy Spirit is not moving in huge ways like He once did; He’s withdrawing. He’s getting ready to take us home.

So I feel an urgency. And I also feel an urgency to pass it down to the younger ones, as I said. It’s a hand-me-down thing.

We like to think our best one is still in us, Daniel. I’d like to keep writing till He comes. I’d really like to see the rapture—I’d like to live till then. That could happen! I want to cheat death! That’s why I put that line in a song—“I might need a tomb / But I hope they can sell it / I’ll be dead and I’ll be buried / But I’ll live to tell it”!

DJM: Not ringing a bell—what song was that?

Dianne: Well, it hasn’t been cut yet. It’s on hold. It comes from Jesus [breaks into song]

Jesus died and was buried and He lived to tell it

That was my hook—“He Lived to tell It.” Mark had it on hold; Arthur had it on hold. It’ll get cut one of these days.

That’s my whole thing. I may have a tomb some day, but I won’t need that tomb. I’d like to cheat it—just go straight up, get changed in transit!

But I want to write what God has for me to write till I go.

If I never wrote another thing, and I was still here, that would grieve me. But I would be happy that He gave me what He did. I’d be happy with what He’s given—because what He gave was what was supposed to be given.

I’ll tell you what else—He knows who’s supposed to do ‘em, too. Tell you what, “Safe on the Glory Side” was pitched first to the Booth Brothers. I sang it to Jim Brady’s face, and he just fell for it. Just loved it. And he was gonna go back and talk to the other guys about it, and in the process, I sung it to Mark Trammell, and the rest is history, ’cause Mark put it on hold!

I thought about that tonight, when Jim Brady was up there singing with him—I thought, “Well, God love you, you do get to sing it sometimes, anyway!” But God meant for Mark to have that song.

DJM: And for Eric Phillips to sing it, too. Because that Always Have a Song project—I am so glad Eric Phillips went out on that note.

Dianne: Well, that brought Eric out. That showed people what Eric could do.

DJM: That he had that recording in him before he came off the road

Dianne: He did, he did.

DJM: When I first heard their music, I heard what they could be, that potential, and I’m glad they realized it while Eric was still with them.

Dianne: God’s in charge of who does the song. When you think you’ve got it like it’s gonna be, He’ll change gears every time.

So that’s my burden. Keep writing the best I can write, craft it the best I can craft it, and give it the best I’ve got, as long as I can get it done.

I’ve loved talking to you, Hon!

DJM: I’ve loved talking to you, too!

DJM: I see that you, your wife Jessica, and a third singer named Scott Brand have started a trio, The Trammells. How long has this been in the works?

Nick:. We really didn’t set out to start a group. We were asked to sing at a county Baptist Association meeting in October and just got a few songs together for that. Scott Brand, who is an INCREDIBLE singer, and I met when we were in college. I was with the JSU Show Choir and we went to see the Southern Union Community College Show Choir perform. He sang 1 song as a former member of the choir and tore the house down. We met later that night when everyone went out to eat and became instant friends. He had played with Steve “Rabbit” Easter in the Rabbit Easter Band, and has grown up around Southern Gospel his whole life. Never saw him again after that night until the Mark Trammell Trio Homecoming this year. We talked for a few minutes and I introduced him to Jessica. Before we left, he said “Hey if yall ever want to get together and sing, give me a call!” I don’t think he thought I would take him seriously! So we called him and asked if he wanted to sing that night and he said yes. We practiced a few songs and sang together that night and there were several pastors that asked for contact information so they could have us at their churches. We currently have 3 or 4 concerts scheduled in the area coming up and are just waiting to see what God has planned! Our hearts have always been in the music ministry and we feel like God is opening this door for us to do what we love to do.

DJM: Are you planning to do only concerts in your region, or will you go farther if invited?

Nick: We all have regular jobs and I am still finishing my degree, so we aren’t planning on doing anything outside of the area a whole lot. If, however, the opportunity arises every now and then we aren’t opposed to it. It would really depend on all of our work and school schedules as to if we could make it. Like I said before, we are just following God on this one!

DJM. Any recordings in the works?

Nick: Ha! No recordings yet, I took a tape recorder and taped us practicing a few songs to listen back to and see what needed to be worked on. Thats about it, haha.

DJM: Are you singing the lead part right under Jessica, or does Scott take that part with you singing baritone?

Nick: It will probably be about 50/50. Jessica sang Soprano with her family (The Browns) so she can sing both Scott and I into the clouds, haha. Scott has an awesome lead voice though and I’ll give him the lead part as much as he is willing to take it!

DJM: Anything else you wanted the readers to know about the launch of the group?

Nick: Just pray for us, we are seeking God in every aspect of this and just want to be an encouragement to the church. It is very hard this day in time to be a Christian and take a stand for Jesus. We, just like every other ministry, want to spread the Gospel to the lost and be an encouragement to believers who may be going through “stuff”. If nothing else, just let them know that everything is gonna be ok.

DJM: How can fans and people interested in booking you get in touch?

Nick: We have a few different ways. My e-mail address is NickMTrammell@aol.com, and my phone number is (256) 504-1414. Now I am bad about screening my calls if I don’t recognize a number lol, and I am in class a lot and can’t take my phone in. So if you get my voicemail, please just leave a message and I will respond quickly. I also have had some friends tell me to keep them updated on if we are singing anywhere so I started a Facebook group page for “The Trammells” with some upcoming stuff on it and will be adding more as it comes along. You can also leave messages on that page if you want to contact us.

DJM: Thanks, Nick!

A formatted version of this interview is here. A plain text version is below.

DJM: I know many people have heard the story of how you became involved in Southern Gospel music, but for those who haven’t, could you start by saying what got you interested in Southern Gospel, as briefly or in depth as want?

Mark: I’m the youngest of four Baptist preacher’s kids. When I was a little boy, my dad would have regional groups from around the Little Rock, Arkansas area come in and sing for us during homecoming and things like that. And I just fell in love with this music.

By the time I was eight years old, I guess, I was going to the Robinson Auditorium in Little Rock, Arkansas, about once every six months, to hear groups like the Happy Goodman Family, the Florida Boys, and the Dixie Echoes.

When I got a little older, the Inspirations came to town. Mike Holcomb and I were just talking this week about the fact that the first time I met him was in 1972. He had just gone to the Inspirations. My dad was sponsoring a thirty minute radio program on Saturday mornings for nothing but Inspirations music at that time. So I got to meet Mike, and that was 1972. So this many years later, here we are. I don’t think neither he nor I realized that it had been thirty-seven years, but it has.

So I grew up in and around this industry. I sang in regional groups for a couple of years.

DJM: Which groups were they?

Mark: The New Horizons, the Masters Quartet (out of Little Rock), and the Arkansas Boys. The Arkansas Boys was comprised of myself, my brother Jerry (who sang with the Florida Boys just after that), and Vaughn Thacker. That was the original bunch.

Then I went from that to the Senators, when I was 15.

DJM: Now were you singing with these groups, playing bass guitar, or both?

Mark: Singing. Actually, with New Horizons, I played the bass. I sang with the Masters Quartet. I played the bass and sang in the Arkansas Boys. Those were the groups I was affiliated with around home, before going on the road.

‘Course, I took a Continental Trailways bus back and forth from Memphis to Little Rock every weekend, when I joined the Senators. We would be out every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. The short version of the long story is that I literally continued going to school every Monday through Thursday. Thursday night or Friday morning, I’d catch a bus to Memphis. I’d get on the Senators’ group bus, and we’d get out of town.

DJM: Now were you singing or playing bass for the Senators?

Mark: I sang for the Senators.

DJM: Baritone?

Mark: I sang lead, actually, with the Senators.

DJM: Did you sing baritone with the other local groups, or did you sing lead as well?

Mark: I sang baritone with the Masters and with the Arkansas Boys.

DJM: The Senators—was this the same group Coy Cook started?

Mark: Actually, this was just after Coy sold the group to Ray Shelton. And Ray is who I worked for. Ray kept it—in fact, he still owns that name, I’m sure.

Tim Shelby was the tenor singer; Ray sang baritone, I sang lead, and Rick Fair sang bass.

DJM: Really? The same who was with Palmetto State some years later.

Mark: Yes.

And Vaughn Thacker played the piano for them.

DJM: Did you do any recordings for them?

Mark: I did one called Stand By Me. And by that time, Big Jim Hamill had come into the picture, and I went to play guitar and singing, both.

Big Jim had left the Kingsmen. Foxy and Jim are in Heaven now, so we can tell the real story, because it’s actually funny. Big Jim had got mad because they weren’t taking vacation one summer. So Foxy said, “Go take one!”

And he said, “I think I will.”

And he just stayed gone for about a year before he went to the Kingsmen.

DJM: When Squire was with them?

Mark: Squire was still there. I think they did one or two albums without Big Jim.

DJM: Just in Time, I think?

Mark: Yes. That’s got Parrack, Parsons, Ray Dean, Foxy, and Nick Bruno.

Of course, I went from the Senators back to finish my senior year in high school. During my senior year, I would travel frequently with the Florida Boys. I wound up playing bass with the Florida Boys when I was on trips with them, when Les found out that I could, and it gave him a break. Many years later, I’m really grateful that he let me do that.

In fact, the first time I was on the Gospel Singing Jubilee, I was playing bass for the Florida Boys. During Thanksgiving break, I had a week off, and I went up there to be with my brother, who was still singing tenor for them at the time. I wound up having the opportunity to be on the Gospel Singing Jubilee. So that was a big thing for me, back in those days.

DJM: So did you just fill in here and there, or were you regularly with them for a while?

Mark: No, I just hung out with them, and I’d ride the bus periodically. But that was a lot of fun.

DJM: So you had already gotten to know Big Jim Hamill during your Senators days. Was that the connection that brought you on board the Kingsmen bus?

Mark: Oddly enough, no.

DJM: Really!

Mark: Jim McCauley left, just prior to my getting married in 1978. Someone had told Foxy that the year prior to that, I’d been playing bass for the Florida Boys when I had time to be off.

We saw the Kingsmen in Little Rock. I went up to Foxy, and I told him, “I understand Mac’s left.”

He said, “Yeah.”

And he said, “Are you Jerry’s little brother?”

I said, “Yes, sir.”

He said, “Hmm. Somebody told about you. Are you interested in the job.”

I said, “Well, yes, sir.”

So I went to work for the Kingsmen about a month later.

DJM: So were you hired on the spot, or did he try you out?

Mark: No, actually he hired me on the spot. Big Jim wondered why he did, because I didn’t know the keys to everything they did, and I guess Big Jim thought I needed to, two weeks later.

I went home and practiced with the albums, and I knew most of everything. But when you worked for Big Jim, you had to be ready to whatever he said on the spur of the moment. If it was a song that they had done twenty years ago, it didn’t matter that you were brand new, you should know it.

DJM: So how long were you with the Kingsmen?

Mark: I was there for two years before I went with the Cathedrals. It was ‘78 to July of ‘80.

DJM: Had you just sung enough on stage that the Cathedrals heard you and offered you a full-time singing position?

Mark: Yes, because when I went to the Kingsmen, Big Jim put me to work doing both. I went there to play, but he also had me singing his high notes on the end of songs. Gary Dillard was playing steel back then; once in a while, he’d bring us up and we’d sing a song with Ray and Ernie.

A lot of nights, if he was tired, he’d have me come up. We called Gary “Beaver”; I’d give Beaver my bass guitar and go up and sing Big Jim’s part.

So it literally was boot camp for me, to be involved in the Kingsmen, and to get me situated where I could do what I do now. And in 35 years of doing this, now, I look back and I see some of the elements of what Big Jim was trying to do—even in his crude way of doing it—were very beneficial, because it prepared me to be able to do what we’re doing now. So it’s kind of a funny circle that it has all made.

DJM: Right now, I’m forgetting the year Ernie Phillips joined the Kingsmen. Did you overlap with Johnny Parrack?

Mark: No, Ernie was there when I went there. He had been there for about a year. I think ‘77 is when Ernie went there.

DJM: So you just missed being able to say that you had performed with both the Parrack father and son, and the Phillips father and son. [Johnny and Jay Parrack, and Ernie and Eric Phillips.]

Mark: Just did miss it, yes.

DJM: That would have been something, though!

Mark: Oh yes, absolutely.

DJM: So you joined the Cathedrals in July of 1980, and you were with them for about eleven years?

Mark: Yes. Almost eleven years.

DJM: Now here is another part of your story that many have heard, but I’m sure some have not. It was about the middle of your time with the Cathedrals that you came to know the Lord, is that correct?

Mark: 1988, actually. July 13, 1988.

DJM: Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Mark: April of 1988, we were at a Starlight Crusade in Spartanburg, South Carolina. And I had really gotten interested in a lot of the taped messages from Dr. Bailey Smith, who was doing all of the Starlight Crusades at that point.

Jim Murray of the Imperials became a very good friend of mine. We played golf together, and things like that. Jim had been saved, I think, a year and a half or two years prior to that, after hearing a message called “Wheat or Tares?” that Dr. Smith preached.

The night that we did that Starlight Crusade in April of ‘88, Dr. Smith preached a message called “God Will Burn Your Barley Fields.” The next night, we were with them again, and that night, the message was entitled, “What happens when God says ‘Enough.’” That was pertaining to the sin unto death—entertaining the idea that even a child of God can do things that are so reprehensible to God and against His will that God will take us out before our time, to keep one of His children from bringing reproach upon him.

I could not imagine doing that. What could I do that would be so horrible that God would take me before my time? How could a merciful God do that? And it really provoked thought.

That night, after it was over, Jim Murray came to me, and he said, “Wow, what a powerful message!”

And I said, “Yes, very thought-provoking, and alarming, as a matter of fact.”

And when I said it was alarming, he just kind of smiled, and said, “Have you heard his ‘Wheat or Tares’ message?”

I said, “No, I haven’t.”

He said, “I’m gonna go and get a cassette, and I’ll meet you at your tape table.”

So I went on over to the table, where the rest of the Cathedrals were. Jim came by in a few minutes and brought me this cassette. That night, I drove from Spartanburg to Atlanta, because our driver had been up all night the nigh before, and I listened to that message.

I didn’t realize it, but I had fallen under the grips of the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I understood, from that point forward until July 13, a level of misery that I had never understood before. I was with the #1 Quartet for America. I wanted for nothing. I had won awards, not only with the group, but baritone awards, producing awards, things like that. I literally had everything I wanted in life, but I was miserable.

The more I thought about it, the more I turned in to myself, and I didn’t talk to anybody for a while. I didn’t like anybody. I remember being at First Baptist Atlanta, Georgia, and hearing Dr. Stanley preach a wonderful message on the walk of faith. I didn’t like him after that day—I decided, “I don’t even like that guy!”

I didn’t understand what was going on until July the 13th, and then it hit me: I know what’s wrong with me.

So I just asked the Lord, plainly, that I’m gonna put this fleece out, just like Gideon. It’s a poor excuse for having faith in God, but I had to do it. And my fleece was: “Lord, if you’re telling me that I’m lost, please let me play golf with that preacher.”

The preacher was Tom Elliff. Dr. Elliff was, by that time, pastor at First Baptist Church in Dell City, Oklahoma, and that’s where the Cathedrals were singing, in the Starlight Crusade for that area. Dr. Smith was not there for that crusade; Paul Jackson from Little Rock preached on Sunday night. Then on Monday night, Dr. Elliff preached the message, “Build an Ark and Save Your Home.” The first point of that message was: Before you can do anything for the world, for your community, and even for your family, you had to settle one question, and that question is the question of your salvation. Are you truly saved? Do you know the difference between religion and relationship?

Man, it hit me like a ton of bricks: I’m list.

That was on Monday night. Monday night, I didn’t sleep till about 5:00 in the morning. After wrestling with myself, I said a very simple prayer: “Lord, if you’re telling me that I’m lost, let me play golf with that preacher tomorrow.”

Dr. Elliff was the last guy to the golf course out of sixteen people that were to play golf. And I’ll never forget it: When he drove up, it was just like God said, “Hey, you asked for this, and you got it. Now what are you going to do?”

So after the third tee off on the Willow Creek Golf Course, I got on my knees alongside Dr. Elliff, and prayed, and asked the Lord to save me, and He did. And it was the most revolutionary thing that has ever happened in my life—I’ve never been so free as I was that day.

DJM: What do you think now, looking back on your recordings prior to being saved? Do you view them differently, or do you think the message of the songs still rings true, even though you were just talking the talk at that point?

Mark: The big thing was, I had walked the aisle, I had filled out the card, and I had said a prayer with my lips that I really didn’t mean anything of with my heart. And that’s where the difference is made.

But I wrestled with that.

A few weeks later, we went on an Alaska cruise with Dr. Stanley. We were on the back of the ship, getting ready to leave port in Vancouver, B.C., and I found him back there, just resting. I said, “Dr. Stanley, please forgive me for bothering you. Can I ask you a quick question?”

He said: “Sure!”

I said: “I was just saved.”

He said, “I heard.” And he smiled.

I said, “I’ve been religious all of my life, and it puzzles me that God would use me in these areas, all this time in my life. I knew all about Him, but I didn’t really know Him. I didn’t know Jesus as Savior. I knew all about the experience, and I knew all about the process. I’ve led people in the sinner’s prayer! Does that mean they’re not saved?”

He looked at me and said, “No, no, no. Remember that God used a donkey one day to preach.”

It reminds all of us that if God will use a donkey, we’re not so much! He’ll use whatever He has to use to get His message and His point across to humanity.

He said, “So what you did, if you led people to Jesus, and in their heart they genuinely believed that the Lord saved them from their sin, just be reminded that we’re all just a vessel. Nothing more, nothing less.”

And that gave me the freedom that I needed to be able to understand where I had come from, and what God had done in my life.

But I will tell you this, Daniel: The night after I was saved, we went back to the Starlight Crusade that evening. When we walked in the doors, I heard the choir singing “So I’ll cherish the old rugged cross / And exchange it someday for a crown.” And there is a world of difference in hearing that with lost ears and hearing it with saved years. It touched my heart like it had never been touched before. The reason why is because the Holy Spirit of God, living inside of me, woke me up. It did something to me. Hey, I’m a Southern Baptist. I’d never felt that way in my life!

But literally, when I walked in there and heard it, I was overcome with emotion. I could not help but stand there and just weep for joy. I’d been singing that song all my life, but now I know what means for the first time!

That changed me.

DJM: So the next major change in your life, then, would be starting Greater Vision with Gerald Wolfe.

Mark: Yes. That was 1988, and then a year and a half later is when Gerald and I started Greater Vision.

In fact, I called him in September or October of that year, in 1990—after convention, I guess it was. God had been dealing with me about this. Gerald had left and gone into full-time solo work. The Daywind people—actually, it was Riversong, who Norman Holland was with at the time, and he’s involved in Daywind now, so I always get it mixed up—but the Riversong folks were talking to Gerald at the time about the possibility of forming a trio. Gerald had told me to help him pray about it, because he didn’t know what to do, or if he even wanted to something like that.

So I called him and told him, “You know, God’s been dealing with me about something.” And I said, “I’m tired of wrestling with it, and I’m gonna put it to rest.”

He said “What?”

I said, “You’ve been thinking about starting a trio.”

He said, “Yeah.”

I said, “You’ll never do it unless I move to Morristown. You’re too big of a chicken.”

And he just laughed—chuckled, you know. He said, “Ah, but first of all, you won’t do it, so I don’t have to worry about that.”

I said, “Don’t tempt me.”

He said, “Are you unhappy there?”

I said, “Oh, no, no. By no means! I live three doors up from George Younce. What more of a dream can you have?” I said, “But I am beginning to understand that my time here is about over.”

When I told George and Glen, we were all grieved, because they both told me, “We really want you to pray about this. We don’t want you to go. We really want you to stay right here, where you are.”

And I told them, “It’s not about what I want.”

And God began to put things in order. He sold my house in seven hours after it went on the market. He began to put things in order that made me understand, “This is what I want you to do.”

It was a very educational process for Gerald and I to start Greater Vision. I loved Gerald literally like a brother. I have three brothers, and I’m literally every bit as close to Gerald Wolfe in my heart. Another man that’s not my relative, but I’m every bit as close to him in my heart as my brothers. That’s how God linked us up.

Gerald was a wonderful, wonderful testimony, an example in my life, during those days of conviction. Because Gerald was with us when I was saved, on the golf course, and he literally wept when we got back from the golf course that day. He sat and just wept, hugged my neck, and … it was a bond that was formed there that’s still strong today.

December 17, 1990 is when I actually loaded up my truck and moved to Morristown, Tennessee. And by New Year’s Eve, we were singing!

DJM: After feeling the leading of God to start the group, what led you to join Gold City a couple of years later?

Mark: Three years later, Gerald and I were in the midst of a growth process. It was one of those things where you just knew, “Okay, I’m here for a season,” and again, God challenged me.

I argued with God the first time that I realized he was challenging me in two areas. The first area was the area of evangelism. I thought, “God, the last thing I want to do is preach.”

I told my dad when I was 16, after watching him go through a church split, that the last thing I ever wanted to do was be involved in that kind of life, and that kind of ministry. Because I saw what it did to my mom and dad. It aged them. It broke my mom and dad—it literally broke his heart to go through that process.

But God wouldn’t have it any other way. He wouldn’t leave me alone about it.

So in October of 1993, I surrendered to preach on the Isle of Patmos.

DJM: I’ve heard of that, but hadn’t know when it was. So were you on a cruise?

Mark: We were on a Journeys of Paul trip with Greater Vision, with Dr. Charles Stanley. We went to the Isle of Patmos, and I went to the cave where they say John wrote the book of Revelation.

I was standing in that cave, and it was as if the Holy Spirit of God said, “I had something special for you to do. You can do it and be at peace, or you can fight. What do you want to do?” And it was literally that clear to me!

On the way home, we got on the plane in Zurich, Switzerland. I went to the restroom, came back and sat with my wife on the plane before it took off. We were heading back into the states from Zurich.

I began to weep, and I told my wife, “Things are gonna be different when we get home!”

She said, “What are you talking about?”

I said, “They’re just gonna be different,” and I began to just cry.

And she said, “So, does this mean we get to move again?”

And that’s all she said. God had prepared her for it. I said, “But what if we do?”

She said, “If you know you’re following God, I’ll go.”

When we got home, I didn’t know what was going on. But I had a phone call from my old buddy Tim Riley. Of course, Tim and I had sung in the Southmen for a few months, after I got out of high school, right before I went with the Kingsmen.

DJM: Did you make any recordings with them?

Mark: We’re All Going Home in the Morning was the only one I was on. He was on that one as well.

Tim had called me and just asked me to keep my eyes open for a lead singer and a tenor, because Ivan and Brian were leaving. So I started thinking about it.

Well, I had sixteen messages on my answering machine, and before I got to the end of it, he had called back, and said, “Never mind, I’m looking for a baritone singer. I’ve found a tenor singer, and my baritone singer’s going to the lead part.”

I just looked at my wife. She said, “So you’ve surrendered to preach in the area of evangelism, not pastoring a church. Greater Vision sings every Sunday. What are you gonna do?”

I smiled and said, “Well, it looks like I’m gonna call Tim Riley!”

Because Gold City at that point didn’t sing very much on Sunday.

DJM: So singing on Sundays was a big part of the reason you moved to Gold City.

Mark: That evolved from me being able to begin preaching and continue to sing—that’s the talent that God has given me—into me being able to start this, eight and a half years later.

It was just a wonderful experience for me. And if you look back on it, I never talked on the platform until I went with Gold City. Ever. And I had nine years to warm up to being able to do that.

Of course, I was able to do more preaching through those years. But then we wound up getting busier and busier and busier, and I wound up the last two years, not doing much preaching at all. No revivals, just doing a Sunday night thing once in a while.

And then at the end of that process, it was like God reminded me what He had called me to. And I thought, “You know, I’m not going somewhere else to do this. If I’m gonna keep doing this, I need to be able to set my own schedule, my own pace. I need to be able to book meetings, because evidently that’s what God wants me to be involved with the most. And if I do that, then He’ll bless the other side of the ministry.”

And that’s exactly what He’s done. I’m convinced in my heart that if I just quit preaching, then the singing side of our ministry would fly right into the side of a mountain and be over with.

But as God opens those doors, we continue to go through them. We’ve been privileged to see over 250 people say yes to the saving knowledge of Jesus since that time. And it’s invaluable to be able be able to continue to do that work.

In fact, at the end of this month, I’m going to go to Burlington, North Carolina for a four-day meeting. And of course, I spoke here at the National Quartet Convention. This is my second year to be involved here with the Bible Study and speaking in those arenas, and God just keeps opening the doors.

DJM: Anything you’d like to say about the current project?

Mark: Always Have a Song, or Vintage Gospel?

DJM: Well, maybe both, since Always Have a Song is your most recent project of new songs.

Mark: Always Have a Song is dear to my heart, if for no other reason than Loving the Lamb, which Kyla Rowland wrote. It’s the biggest song we’ve had to date. It went to #4 in the charts. It’s one of the top 10 songs for 2009. And I’m in shock, because it’s not one of those radio candy-type songs. It’s not upbeat—it’s not 2 ½ minutes long, it’s five minutes long, and it’s in your face with a powerful, positive message. And it just blows my mind how God’s working in that kind of thing. But that song, and that project, is dynamic.

Of course, the Vintage Gospel project—I love that project. I guess the big reason why is that there are parts of my life in the past which are involved in that project. “Standing on the Rock,” which my brother sang—recorded first with the Florida Boys. We sang it on there.

“Hold Me,” a song that George did in 1988, right after I was saved, the next recording that we did.

Things like that that are dear to me. “While All Ages Roll”—Mosie Lister’s one of my all-time favorite writers. And I got to hear the story of that song—the fact that Mosie has a speech problem. I didn’t know that he stuttered when he got nervous.

When he told me about the story, he told me that it was written about him. In the first verse is “Someday this stammering tongue will falter no more.” And—boom!—it hit me: He had been writing about him! But what he was going to about when he got out of this fleshly temple, and into a Heavenly body. And man, it hit home to me!

DJM: So did you arrange that as a bass solo?

Mark: No, all I did was invert the harmony, where I took the lead on the lower end, and built the harmony around that.

DJM: And people can get in touch with your ministry at…

Mark: www.marktrammellministries.com. Office number is 256-442-1621.

DJM: Thank you very much!

Mark: Thank you.

A formatted version is here.

DJM: Even though I know you tell your story in more detail on your Personal DVD, could you briefly tell us how you first became interested in playing the piano?

Kim: Actually, I didn’t start out with any ambitions to play the piano or take piano lessons. On a Sunday night, when I was three years old, I was in church, sitting in the front row, and my daddy preached a message on the gift of wisdom that God gave Solomon.

People say you can’t remember that far back, and I don’t remember a lot of the details—but I do remember what the message was about. He said that God gave Solomon a gift of wisdom because he asked for it.

Somehow, that made an impression on my little mind. I went home and put my PJ’s on—I can take you to the spot—in fact, we showed the spot on the DVD—where I got down and begged the Lord for a gift. The only thing I remember after that is getting in bed and thinking, “I can’t wait to see what I’m gonna be when I wake up in the morning!”

I never dreamed that it would be music. I didn’t have any interest in music that I remember, up to that point. (Of course, I was really too little to remember much of anything.) My mother can probably tell my story better, with the age and time of when I began to play, but it was very shortly after that that I began to play the piano. And that was apparently the gift that I was given!

DJM: And you started playing for church a couple of years after that?

Kim: Actually, I was about seven when I started playing for church. My mother was the pianist, and the church organist resigned his position, so my mother moved to the organ and put me on piano. And that was my beginning in church music!

DJM: Off the wall: Do you know how to play organ as well?

Kim: Yes—I love to play the organ! I play for a lot of weddings, and enjoy it!

DJM: Do you play pipe organ, with the pedals and all?

Kim: Yes! I don’t necessarily understand everything about the pipe organ and wouldn’t be considered a pro, but I certainly love to play it.

DJM: That’s neat! Now I noticed in the behind the scenes on another DVD that you made a couple of piano recordings?

Kim: I did.

DJM: How old were you when you did those, and what were the names of those recordings?

Kim: Ah, let’s see. I did three. I was thirteen for the first one, fourteen for the second one, and fifteen for the third one. They were called Kimberly Keaton at the Keyboard Number 1, Number 2, and Number 3. It was pretty simple!

DJM: Hymns?

Kim: A mixture.

DJM: Okay. What else did you include?

Kim: Oh, I loved Floyd Cramer’s style, and while I didn’t play his songs much, I would take “Farther Along,” “The Old Country Church” or some similar song, and kind of adapt it to his style. I always enjoyed doing that.

DJM: So you didn’t do any recordings after that for a number of years, till you were with Phil?

Kim: That is correct. Actually, I did play for a couple of college groups when I was in junior high and high school, and they made some recordings that I accompanied on.

DJM: On the recording, or just in the live concerts?

Kim: No, actually, on the recording.

DJM: If you remember, what college groups were you with?

Kim: It was a quartet and a mixed group from Union Bible College. This particular college also had an academy and a high school, and I was a student in their academy. I was in the seventh and eighth grades when I started playing for their groups.

DJM: So then, you met Phil in the mid-80s and got married in 1985?

Kim: Actually in 1986. When I met Phil, I was 14. I had just come out of the eighth grade, and he was going into his freshman year of college!

Phil attended a college in Cincinnati called God’s Bible School and College. His sister, Connie Hilligoss, was the high school choral conductor at the school I attended, and before Phil started college that fall, he came to visit her. She promptly said to him, “I have three girls I want you to meet.” I was the third one he met, and we just clicked.

DJM: So right before you got married in 1986, I understand you began performing together?

Kim: Yes. About six weeks before we got married, we sang for a camp meeting at Lower Lights Camp Meeting in Petersburg, Michigan. That was our first debut as a couple!

DJM: Then you did camp meetings together for the next ten or fifteen years?

Kim: For thirteen years. We did revivals during the spring and the fall, and we’d do anywhere from about eight to ten camp meetings in the summer.

DJM: So what led your family to decide to branch out into doing more concerts, other than just camp meetings?

Kim: Well, I’ll be perfectly honest, God led us in this journey, and I’m very serious about that.

The music that you do for camp meetings and revivals would be completely different from what we do for concerts. By that I mean that you would sing maybe two or three songs a night. You would sing one right after the congregational singing. Then they would have prayer and an offering, which we would play offertory for. Then we would always sing one right before the evangelist or pastor got up to preach.

We loved music deeply. And it was becoming less and less fulfilling to us to just fill that role every night, doing two songs. And the logistics of traveling with small children and staying in people’s homes…I mean, Tuesday through Sunday, we lived in someone else’s home. We’d have Monday night off and hit it again that following Tuesday.

DJM: One day off?

Kim: One day off. And then we’d do Tuesday through Sunday, Monday off, Tuesday through Sunday, Monday off.

I don’t know that we can really say that we just decided to change, but the Lord decided to change us and move us in another direction.

DJM: So was it gradual, or was it more of a sudden shift?

Kim: Here’s the deal. At Christmas time, they usually don’t have revivals or camp meetings, so we were basically without a job. Once our kids came along—Brooklyn, I believe, was four or five, and Courtney was about three—we put together a series of songs about Christmas, and fun songs about the holidays. If I remember correctly, we got about two invitations to come to two different churches and sing on a Sunday night. So we did a grand total of two Christmas concerts that year.

We enjoyed doing it very much, and the kids loved it. One thing led to another, and the next Christmas, we got more invitations. Well, we did that for three or four years, maybe. At the end of the third or fourth year, we had quite a little repertoire of Christmas concert music, mixed with instrumentals. The kids would recite Scripture and dress up in costumes—it was really something! It was sweet, more than anything!

DJM: Do any videotapes exist?

Kim: Yes! I have videotapes of this. They are priceless to me, because of the children.

But anyway, through that, by the end of the thirteenth year of doing singing revivals, we started getting calls with this question: “Do you ever do concerts other than at Christmas time?”

And the answer was, “Well, not really.”

That question led us from one thing, to the next, to the next. And the Lord began to close some doors, and open other doors for this concert ministry. Invitations started coming in, and it became very clear that God was leading us in another direction. And that’s how we got here!

DJM: So when you were doing those two or three songs, did those ever include piano solos, or did you really not do many piano solos during those years?

Kim: Never.

Let me take that back—almost never. And let me tell you why: For every offertory, Phil always played his trumpet. Phil has a degree in trumpet performance and it just seemed like the thing for him to do, and I always just accompanied him. I enjoyed that role.

DJM: Hmm!

Kim. Always—for every offertory. We had six or ten arrangements of trumpet music. We would sing the first song, he would play the offertory, and we would sing the last song before the evangelist got up.

I didn’t have a desire in the world to do solos!

DJM: So why did you start?

Kim: You can thank my husband for that. (laughs)

I had made those previous recordings, and always played when I was playing for the other groups. But I kind of like to take the back seat, and I enjoyed myself. I was raising my kids, and I didn’t have to worry about anything like that.

But when we started doing the concerts, Phil started saying, “Why don’t you play ‘O Holy Night’?” or “Why don’t you play this or that?”

And it just grew out of that. I don’t really know how to describe it. It just sort of happened. The people seemed to like it. The people seemed to receive it well and were very responsive and gracious.

DJM: So was “How Great Thou Art” a turning point for you, in getting full orchestration on a track?

Kim: Really, to be honest, there was another song before “How Great Thou Art.” It was “Amazing Grace.” I leased a track—or bought, I believe it was, a demo—this was way back before we were doing orchestrations.

Phil asked me to play that. I played it for a banquet, and I worked and worked around the orchestra, and created piano parts, and arranged it, and I made it the best I could.

That, probably, was the turning point, right there, now that I think about it. I guess we’ve never really just sat down and thought about this stuff. It just happened!

Phil is of the philosophy, in anything we do—if the children would sing, and it was received very well, well, then, that’s something that works. Let’s build on that. That’s kind of the way he has always operated.

But once we did “Amazing Grace,” and the response was positive, he kept asking me to play. Then “How Great Thou Art” was second.

DJM: Did you ever record that rendition of Amazing Grace?

Kim: I did. It’s on Silver and Ivory.

DJM: Then you did “How Great Thou Art,” then “It is Well”…

Kim: Before that, I did “Salute to the Troops.”

And, of course, we did stuff like “Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho.” And, to be perfectly honest, I really stressed over that. That was at the beginning of the ten years—you know, we’ve been doing this for ten years—and, when we were getting ready to arrange Silver and Ivory, Phil said, “I want you to arrange a piece of music for “Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho.”

I was like: “Oh, do I have to?”

He was like, “I really want you to do it. I think you’d come up with something really cool on a song like that.”

So we were at North Vernon Church of the Nazarene in Indiana. We sang there that morning, and were scheduled there that evening, also. In between concerts, I went into the church sanctuary, sat there, and arranged “Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho.”

Probably, of all the fast music I have ever played, that one is still the most requested. I don’t know why. This very weekend, it’s been requested both Friday and Saturday nights.

DJM: Do you play much classical music, or was the “Hallelujah Chorus” more of a departure for you?

Kim: No, I don’t play much classical music, but I have always, ever since I was a child, had a great appreciation for it. I was one of those kids that geekish—is that a word?

DJM: I’m not sure!

Kim: Well, let me put it this way: When you came over to our house, it was not uncommon to find me on the floor in a corner somewhere with a pair of headphones in my ears, and holding a little cassette player. I would have cassettes of choral groups and choral samples, and I would listen to choral arrangements or classical music, for long periods of time. I was a little bit geekish in that way! And I’ve always had an appreciation for classical music. Always.

DJM: Was “Hallelujah Chorus” the first classical piece you’ve recorded?

Kim: That I’ve recorded? Yes, probably so.

And the only reason for that is that the genre that we play in…they don’t do classical music. The reason I chose the “Hallelujah Chorus” is not because it’s classical in style, but because of the lyrics. The election was coming up last year, in ‘08, as you know.

DJM: You taped it in March?

Kim: The initial idea was March, and we did it in April. I chose that particular piece  because there was a lot of uncertainty last year, there still is. And that song just reminds me, over and over, that we’re not of the kingdoms of this world, but of another kingdom! God is going to reign, and have the final say regardless of what happens in our world. It just seemed appropriate for the economy, the time, the shape our world’s in.

DJM: Is it more difficult for you to play than the other songs you do, based on hymns?

Kim: No, not really. I enjoy playing it.

DJM: Do you play it frequently? Because I don’t think I’ve heard it live yet.

Kim: You’ve not heard “Hallelujah Chorus” live yet?

DJM: I don’t think so. [Whether intentional or not, they did conclude their program with that song that evening!]

Kim: I do play it frequently. A lot of people are still requesting “How Great Thou Art.” And to be honest, I don’t like to play “How Great Thou Art” every night.

Two reasons: I take the songs that I play dead serious. And I get tired of music quickly, because of it. I don’t want things to become commonplace, to where I can just spit it out, and go through motions that aren’t reality. I want the songs to be real and I want them to be fresh to me, so I set aside “How Great Thou Art” quite frequently—unless someone just emphatically requests it. Otherwise, I just give it a break.

DJM: So with getting tired of songs easily, is it a challenge for you to be in a cycle where you do a new recording every two years?

Kim: Yes, sometimes it is. But when you have recorded several CDs, you have a lot more songs to choose from. There’s more variety—more opener songs, more fast numbers, more to pick from.

I think it also helps that we have the four children, and we can shift back and forth from mixed trios to ladies trios to family ensembles, to violins, to piano, to trumpet, et cetera. That helps us a lot in not tiring so quickly of our music these days.

DJM: All right! Since this wasn’t out when I interviewed Phil earlier this year, could you tell us a bit about the new project?

Kim: Well, The Answer has been in the making since Janury. We started choosing the music around that time, and then Wayne Haun came to our home in March and spent a couple of days. We listened to what felt like hundreds of demos—I don’t think it was that many—but we began to more seriously confirm our choices of repertoire.

In every CD that we do, there are special moments where the Lord confirms to us, “I want you to do this song, or this song.” Such is the case with The Answer.

We were having a prayer meeting in our home one Tuesday night. Phil and I were discussing the fact that we felt like we were missing something on this new CD. I said to Phil, “We need something that is going to tell the people in the audience that don’t know anything about a relationship with Jesus, and that come to our table crying because their homes are broken, things are going bad, their finances are shot, and everything is just bad. We need a song that straight up tells them that Jesus is the answer to their problems.”

As we were sitting in that prayer meeting that night, the song “Jesus is Still the Answer” came to my mind. It’s an old Lanny Wolfe song; we’ve always loved Lanny Wolfe’s writing. I jumped up and said, “Oh, let’s go to the music room!”

It was about 11:30 at night. Courtney walks out of her room—she was the only one of our kids up at the time. I ran the song by her, and said, “What do you think?”

She said, “I don’t even know it.” (Of course, she’s 18.)

We went to the music room, and began to teach her “Jesus is Still the Answer.” While we were trying to sing it, we could hardly keep the tears from flowing. Courtney looked at me and said, “Mama, this is it!”

We have been singing that song for two weekends. And I’m telling you what. That song is old, but the message is timeless. And the crowds are absolutely responding in just a fantastic way. You can tell they’re relating to it. It’s ringing their bell. You can tell they agree—Jesus is still the answer.

DJM: You also included an old hymn, “I Want a Principle Within.”

Kim: Oh, my! A hymn that’s 260 years old, written by Charles Wesley.

The very reason we chose it was because of the lyrics. We have four teenagers…

DJM: Olivia’s a teenager? [shock!]

Kim: Oh, I’m sorry—I have three teenagers and one pre-teen! They’re going through times of decision making. A lot of pressure, and peer pressure. I think one of the things we  want our children to catch in this song is, “Listen to your God-given conscience. Right is right, and wrong is wrong.”

This song literally talks about having those principles in place. What a great song!

DJM: So why did you choose Great is Thy Faithfulness as your piano solo for this project?

Kim: You want to know why?

DJM: Yes.

Kim: My teenage son begged me to play that.

DJM: Really?

Kim: I don’t know why in the world a teenage boy would pick, “Great is Thy Faithfulness,” but he has asked me for quite some time, for several, several months, “Mama, please, would you play a rendition of ‘Great is Thy Faithfulness’?”

So I don’t know. I kinda toyed with it, but I thought, “Well, if my teenage boy wants to hear it, then I’m gonna record it!”

DJM: Since I have no anticipation of interviewing Olivia any time soon … I understand she has a new project coming out. Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Kim: It came out last Friday—a week ago Friday. It’s called Then and Now. That name was chosen by Olivia. What we did was, we took every song she has done from every project. You see her at every age—there’s pictures inside of the booklet that show her at those ages. And then we added four brand new tunes, that kind of fit her in the age she’s in now.

It’s a very, very cute CD, if I have to say so myself!

I was like, “Should we bring these old ones out, and do this?” But when I got the finished copy, I put it in the CD player, and I sat there and grinned for a solid thirty minutes. Of course, part of that’s the momma coming out in me, and remembering … a little sentimental. But it’s just a really cute CD for kids.

My first idea that it was going to be a good project was when two little girls, who happen to be my nieces, were at my house when the CDs came. We popped the CD in. Those little girls are four and six. They came flying into the music room when they heard a little girl’s voice, and promptly sat down on the floor. They sat there mesmerized the entire time we played the CD.

So I thought, “Well, that’s a good sign if kids like it—that’s who we did it for.”

DJM: Now about Olivia’s solo on your new CD, “Oh the Thought that Jesus Loves Me”—her voice has matured!

Kim: Very much.

DJM: So was “My Favorite Things” probably the last cute solo, and we can look for more serious stuff from now on?

Kim: Well, on her new CD, Then and Now, she does have a new one called “God Makes a Lot of a Little.” It’s adorable, very kiddish. But, you know what…probably with “My Favorite Things,” we were coming in for a landing on the little girl stuff, I have to tell you. She’s growing up!

The last song on her new CD is called “Little by Little,” and it says, “Little by Little, I’m changing, I’m growing / Little by little, I hope that it’s showing / I’m not who I’ll be / I’m not who I was / I’m somewhere in the middle / But God is changing me / Little by little.” Well, that’s Olivia right there—it fits her very well!

DJM: So what do think it is about piano and Southern Gospel? Is it just that piano is what was available at the start of the genre of music, or do you think there is just something about the style of music that needs a piano?

Kim: Well, you know, I would probably not be the authority to answer that question. I’ve always loved Southern Gospel music—I grew up listening to the Cathedrals, and many other groups—but I never remember hearing it with anything but a piano and maybe a bass. I don’t go back before the days of that, so … I don’t know.

It’s a great instrument, of course, and I’m prejudiced, but I’m not sure how to answer that question.

I just think it fits.

DJM: I’ve just wondered if there was something you could do with eighty-eight keys that a guitar, with six strings, couldn’t quite match for keeping up with four male voices or family groups.

Kim: I don’t know about that. I think that the rhythm you can play with a piano—of course, you can play it on a guitar, too—but there’s something about the piano that identifies a quartet, when the pianist begins to play stuff that just bounces around while the quartet is doing their thing. I don’t know, it just fits!

DJM: Is there any question you’ve hoped someone would ask you in an interview, but nobody has ever asked you?

Kim: Oh my, let me think here. Good question!

I don’t know that I have ever wished anybody would ask me this question, but you may find this interesting. You know, I’ve played a lot of big ballads on the piano. It’s partly because my husband loves them, and he likes me to play them. My husband is a very bombastic person—he would laugh if I said that, but he knows it’s the truth! The bigger, the better. That’s just him.

To be honest, I am the exact opposite. And people don’t realize that. My choice of piano playing  would be easy listening or accompanying. It’s my favorite to play. Sometimes I’ll go into my piano room, and literally, it’ll be like a devotional time, and I’ll do nothing but sit there and play easy-listening church music, and become absolutely blessed beyond words because the lyrics just move me deeply.

I think people may find it interesting that my first choice of music is not big, bombastic piano playing. Although, I enjoy it—if a song calls for exuberance—it’s just not my first choice.

DJM: Certain songs do—

Kim: Yes, some just call for it. You can’t play everything easy listening, and I know that. If the song calls for big dynamics, I love to play it. The Bible does say to praise God with the cymbals, with the harps, and with the stringed instruments…so I guess it could fall in that category.

DJM: I count pianos among the stringed instruments!

Kim: Me, too.

There are many nights I’ll say, “Oh, just let me play something easy listening!”

DJM: Is there a connection between that and why you end “It is Well” and “Great Is Thy Faithfulness” on soft and gentle finishes instead of big endings?

Kim: Yes and no. The reason I ended some of those that way is to have variety. I don’t think everything needs to end with a crash.

The other thing was, take “It is Well With My Soul”: The essence of that song is about peace. So I like to end it peaceful. I didn’t want to end it by giving somebody indigestion.

And “Great is Thy Faithfulness”—I ponder that thought, and it moves me deeply. There are stories that each of us have about the faithfulness of God in our own lives. When I ponder those stories in my own personal life, I don’t feel like jumping up and down. I feel like bowing at His feet and thanking Him for His faithfulness. So that’s probably why I ended that one that way—with that gentle thought about the faithfulness of God.

DJM: To jump topics entirely: Did you homeschool your children from the start, or is that something that came up a little later?

Kim: Actually, I have homeschooled the children for twelve years, and started when each one was in kindergarten. With the exception of a two-year sabbatical which during part of that time I was pregnant with our youngest child, Olivia, I have always homeschooled them. The reason for this is, more than anything, is because of the logistics of road life.

DJM: I don’t really know how many of my readers are, but do you have any thoughts or advice you’d like to pass along to moms who are raising their children on the road?

Kim: Absolutely. I would say: Make your kids a priority, even above your job on the road.

Homeschooling has never been easy. There have been many days I wake up and wish the school bus had picked them up. And then there have been many days I thank the Lord that the school bus didn’t pick them up. I’m not a pro, and I’m certainly not seasoned by any means, just because I’ve homeschooled for twelve years.

But I will say one thing that has worked for us so far, is we have tried our best to let our kids know that their own personal interest mattered to us, over our traveling, over our singing, et cetera. Consequently, we’ve turned down a lot of dates because of this. I think it’s important that the kids have a life, and that they have activities other than just the road. I think it helps them to like and enjoy the traveling more, when they have the other opportunities, if that makes any sense.

When Brooklyn turned twelve, we sat down and chose several events that we determined to make an annual priority for her and the other children as they got old enough. Examples of that would be the annual youth camp for teens that takes in a lot of sports activities, a youth convention (with some great youth oriented speakers) that they look forward to every year, along with several other events. Our booking agent knows not to book those dates.

It has also helped our kids to feel somewhat normal when we take and register them for these events as just part of the youth group, and not someone who is coming in as a special guests to perform and to be put on a pedestal, as it were.

DJM: Do you have any other thoughts or comments, and could you end with how readers can get in touch with the group?

Kim: They can go to our website, www.thecollingsworthfamily.com. We’re on Facebook now—can you imagine?

DJM: Who does those updates?

Kim: It’s between Courtney, myself, or our our office manager, Dannette Lavy.

Our office phone number is 513-553-0658.

Let me just say one thing, in closing. It is such a privilege to do what we do. I don’t ever want to take it for granted. My biggest prayer is that we stay focused on reality—that really, what it’s about is uplifting and magnifying Jesus and pointing people to the Cross.

I think people in the seats are hungry for God, for something fresh. Sometimes that’s a tough job for us, to always be fresh. I think our fellow travelers on the road all understand and would agree with me on that. It just makes me realize how frail we are as humans and how much we need God’s help to make a difference in people’s lives.

What a privilege to serve in this way.

DJM: Could you start with explaining a little bit about your background—both your upbringing and how you became exposed to Southern Gospel music?
David: I was exposed to southern gospel in Michigan. There’s not a lot of  southern gospel up there! But in northern Michigan—Roscommon, Michigan, is my home town—the style of music that was preached, that was more acceptable in our circles, was more of a sacred music type style. It was really rooted in three different colleges that a lot of the people in our churches were from: Bob Jones University, Maranatha (up in Wisconsin), and Northland Baptist College (up in Wisconsin).

I was raised Independent Fundamental Baptist, very conservative. Southern Gospel, even conservative Inspirations-style, was not really accepted. Entertainment and ministry were not thought to be able to coexist.

I was exposed to it with my best friend’s cassette tape of the Inspirations, a 1993 recording Cry for The Children. The fifth song—the last song on the first side—was “Hide Me Rock of Ages.” I’d never heard bass singing like that in my life. To hear Mike Holcomb was just unbelievable.

I didn’t even care so much for the twang. It was like Christian country to me. I heard the steel guitars, I heard Archie—the high tenor—and said, “I don’t know if I’ll like that, but boy, that bass singer…he can do it!” So I made a copy. (I know that’s terrible!)

To that point I had heard quartets but not Southern Gospel and I loved the harmony, and so I began to learn the baritone part. My brothers and I started listening to that and we began imitating it. My youngest brother was nine at the time and he started hearing the tenor. So we were kind of the hit in our church. We did it a capella; we didn’t have all the instruments and stuff, and we didn’t twang as much. And it kind of rolled from there.

DJM: Did I read something at one point that you did some touring in your area? Did you do full concerts or just like a special music here and there in different churches.
David: It was a little of both, actually. Our first concert had about a hundred people. My best friend’s dad was involved in politics, and he was running for state senate.     This would have been in 2002.

We called ourselves the Messengers. Actually we took that name because on the 2000 Inspirations video Matt Dibler says something right before he does another verse of “Resurrection Ground.” He says, “I love singing with the Inspirations because we have a message and not just music.”

Well that stuck with me, and I said, “Well, that’s a good philosophy to have.” So who carries the message? A messenger does, so we just called ourselves that.

We never gave any thought of touring, and we didn’t really tour.

DJM: Did you do any recordings?
David: We did three on our church’s sound system. It was terrible, but enough just to kinda preserve it enough. We gave them to people. We never sold anything—we really couldn’t, technically, because we didn’t pay the royalties on all that. So that might even be illegal, I don’t know!

But we went as far south as Detroit, and as far north as just south of the Mackinaw bridge. We went on the west side of the state and not so much the east side, but we got calls from lots of different pastors. Mom and Dad were sort-of…they were always involved. I was 15, 16, and 17 during the years we did that. They didn’t “promote” us—they said, “Well, we’re glad our kids are able to do this, but we don’t want them to turn into Christian celebrities. It was still kind of a touchy thing, you know. But I was the spark plug. I was the one that really kept us interested in it. The other guys would follow me—they were like, “Yeah, we’ll do this.” And I really began to fall in love with it.  And I said “Man, I could do this all the time!” I just love making harmony. I love being a blessing to people, and to be a good example to people is a unique opportunity, I guess.

DJM: So was singing with your brothers the only touring/singing experience you had before singing with the Inspirations?
David: That’s 100% accurate. I went to college after I graduated high school. I went down to Pensacola.

DJM: Did you do a four years degree?
David: I did. I was there for four years—I was a Bible major. I studied general Bible. I would have studied music, but at the time when I went to school, I still had given no thought whatsoever to making music my career. Never had I thought of that. And so I couldn’t think of anything that I was really, really interested in except the Bible – I’ve always been a student of the Bible, I love to study it, and so I did. I never felt called to be a pastor or a preacher—I can preach and I have—but never really felt that call, so I just gave it a general degree. Still, it’s a liberal arts college, it was a good price for the degree and everything, so I did that.

I got approached many times to travel for the school. They send out quartets and stuff, but it wasn’t exactly what I was really interested in. They did some Southern Gospel songs, but it was more or less, you’re promoting the college. And I didn’t want to necessarily do that. It wasn’t really my cup of tea, so I said, “Nah…” And there was some politics involved with that too, and I just didn’t want to get involved in that.

But during school I did sing just for fun with other guys, but that was about it.

DJM: So when did you graduate?
David: I graduated in May of 2008—that would have been last May.
DJM: A year and a couple months ago…
David: After I graduated, I went home, having no idea what to do, I went back home to Michigan. I worked for the state of Michigan in a state park for a summer, just as a summer job. And McDonalds. I did both of those. I learned that I’m never gonna complain again when my food is late, because it’s a hard job!

But still I had no idea what to do with my life until Martin called in September.

DJM: So did he call you out of the blue, or had you already known that Matt was leaving?
David: I had no idea that Matt was leaving.

DJM: He knew you were into singing, then?
David: Oh, yeah, let me kinda back up. When my brothers and I were singing, in 2002, we had just started to sing. Mr. Lowe, my best friend Nathan’s dad, was really the one who really pushed us. He was like, “Come on, guys, you need to keep singing. Sing over here, sing over there…” And we never would’ve sung for the Inspirations if not for him.

We went to hear them down in Romeo, Michigan. First Baptist Church of Romeo. It’s north of Detroit, on the way to Port Huron. Actually, it’s really close to where Matt Dibler grew up. It was about a 4-hour drive for us to go down there, but we would’ve gone anywhere to see the Inspirations. This would’ve been the second time we saw them. They were all there that night except Mike. Mike was at his son’s wedding, I believe. So Marlin Schubert was filling in. So that was really neat to get to meet him. I missed Mike, though—I really wanted to hear him.

But before that concert started, Mr. Lowe had told the guys, “Hey, these kids sing your songs!” We were like, “Ssh, don’t tell him!”

“Oh really”

He was like, “Can they sing one for you right here?” He just volunteered us! So we sang “The Great I Am,” which was the first song we ever sung together. It’s off of Pure Vintage. And we did it all together. Right in the lobby, people started gathering around. He caught it on film and everything. And they just fell in love with us—“Wow, that’s really neat that young kids like that…” I mean, it was mostly older folks at the concert. We we were just so excited to be there…teenagers.

That was what introduced them to us. We just kept up with them. Anytime they were in Michigan, we’d be there, and just stayed friends with them.

When I went down to college, I was just a big fan, never gave any thought. I knew all the songs and stuff.

They came to Pensacola in January of 2005. I went and saw them, just a couple of miles away from the campus. Martin called me aside, and he said, “Hey, I remember you from up in Michigan.”

I said, “Yeah, yeah.”

He said, “I want you to give me your number, and I want you to take my number down. Call me about once a month. Just let me know where you’re at. I’m always looking for someone who’s able to fill in if we need him.”

I thought, “Oh, that’s cool!”

He said, “What can you sing?”

I said, “I can sing lead or baritone.”

He said, “Okay, well if anybody is ever out for any reason, we’ll give you a call—you’ll be the first person I call.”

I thought, “Oh, great!”

He asked me some other questions about my beliefs and things, just wanting to make sure I was about what they represented. So everything was okay there. And it was about a year and a half after that when I was able to fill in for the first time.

Matt and I knew each other from Michigan as well.

DJM: So this would be mid-2005?
David: It was early 2005 when he gave me his number. It was in May of 2006 that I filled in for the first time. Matt was out.

I still wasn’t sure I could do lead—I’d never done lead before. I knew I could sing high enough, but I’d never done it. So I started working on it, thinking, “I’d better learn that!” I’d just sung baritone with my brothers. I liked it.

So Matt called me in April, in my dorm room—blew me out of the water!

I picked up my phone in my room—I wasn’t even thinking about nothing—and he said, “Hey, this is Matt Dibler.”

I said, “Oh my goodness! Really?”

He said, “How would you like to sing with the Inspirations?”

I thought he was joking. I said, “Ah, that’s funny!”

He said, “No, I’m serious. I’ve got to be out. My daughter’s graduating from high school” – Sabrina was graduating on Memorial Day weekend, in 2006, and he said, “I need you to fill in for me.” He said, “We’ll fly you down, pick you up, and we’ll sing in Southern Carolina, West Virginia, and Tennessee.”

Of course, I said yes, and it was then that I fell in love with what they did. And I saw really behind the scenes—what’s behind these men, who are these people? They’re more than just singers. And I began to see that these guys really live what they sing. That was the important thing.

That struck home with me. ‘Cause I’m not about the show—well, to a certain degree, you do put on a show, so to speak. You have to be careful with that, though. And I began to see the heart behind these men. I said, “I want to be a part of something that’s real, something that’s not too out there, something that I can identify with, and that I can be an influence in.”

And that’s really what drew me to it.

DJM: So did you fill in at all between that and when you got the job?
David: Kind of, that would have been, I did three days in ‘06. The only time I saw after that would have been when they came back to Pensacola once a year. So I saw them two more times before I graduated.

Well, when they came back in ‘07, after I had filled in, they pulled me up on stage. They knew that I was gonna be there and I knew that I would get to sing a couple of songs, so I wore a suit, and everything. They pulled me up, and I sang a couple of songs. That was neat—all my friends were there, and everything, and they were like, “Wow, you really did sing with the Inspirations!”

And then the next year, Matt didn’t even come. He had something else going on. But Matt was definitely not coming, and he called me. This was ‘08, right before I graduated. He said, “I can’t be there,” for some reason—I don’t remember what it was—and said, “So you’ll have to do the whole night.”

I said, “Okay, that’s great!” So I did—I did the whole thing. Boy, I wasn’t ready for it. I hadn’t been singing regularly at school, so they wore me out. They did everything high, and…boy, that’s one thing, the Inspirations sing more songs in a set than anybody does.

DJM: Because you don’t have the soundtracks, and the long intros and endings…
David: …that is a lot of it…
DJM: And because you’ll do a couple of songs in a row without Martin saying anything.
David: Well, sometimes even more than that. We were in Louisiana one night, and we did thirty-two in the first set. (Somebody counted.) Well, that wears you out!

If somebody says, “There’s no set program,” Martin’s gonna take it and run with it. Sometimes that’s OK, sometimes you just look over there and say, “My word!” It’ll wear you out.

DJM: So how many songs might he call on a given night?
David: Hmm. I would say there’s a possibility of about 60-70 songs, reasonably possible.

DJM: So has he caught you off guard with a song you haven’t practiced?
David: Not yet. Not one we haven’t practiced.

That isn’t a huge deal for me, because I was such a nerd, if I can use that word, such an Inspirations nerd that I knew them all, just like that. In the car, at home…they were my hobby! I didn’t have Michael Jordan on my wall—though I love basketball—I didn’t even have the Michigan State team on my wall. I had the Inspirations. They were my heroes. I looked up to them because of the lives they lived behind what they did as a profession. I knew everything about them. But I tried not to get too geeky, so they wouldn’t get annoyed at me, or whatever!

DJM: Speaking of your inspirations, who else do you look at as heroes of the faith, perhaps non-musical? Anywhere from the time of Christ through now.
David: I love the apostle Paul. As you read through the Bible … He’s written so much of the New Testament. I love him because of the practical things he brings out. And you can see a lot of his personality through his writings.

I think the world of my dad. My dad has taught me a lot.

DJM: What’s his name?
David: His name is Dave Ragan, Sr. My dad had been a military man, off and on through his life. He’s always been one of those blue-collar guys. He’s completely faithful to his family. I look up to my mom and dad equally—they have the best marriage I’ve ever seen. There is nothing more secure for young people growing up than to see that. It’s been a great blessing, because I didn’t choose for them to have that marriage, but they decided to put the Lord first. Their kids turned out well because of it, and I give them a ton of credit for that.

DJM: Speaking of your family, aren’t you part Filipino?
David: Yes. I’m actually half.

I’ll just briefly tell you that story. My dad was in the Marine Corps, and was stationed in Subic Bay in the Philippines, and met my mom. My mom was born over there; she is native Filipino. They were married over there—had a Filipino wedding—and I was born over there. I was there for about nine months, I believe—I don’t remember that, but I’m taking their word for it!—I was there for about nine months, and then my mom and I were shipped over here, if you will.

I don’t have any recollection of it, and I don’t really have a lot of attachment to that culture, but that is my heritage. I’ve never been back since. My mom has been back once. I was born in Olongopo City in the Philippines. And then when my Dad finished his third year in the Marine Corps, he stopped, didn’t renew his contract, and came back. And that was where I was born. But I was raised here my whole life.

I don’t know if I’m the first Filipino to be in Southern Gospel.

DJM: I remember some discussion over that. Was Armond Morales, of the Weatherfords and Imperials—was he Filipino?
David: I thought he was Hawaiian or something else. I asked somebody. But I think he would be the only other one, if that.

I guess that may make me unique, I don’t know!

DJM: In your opinion, what makes Southern Gospel Southern Gospel, and not some other genre?
David: That is a great question.
DJM: And one I’ve wanted to ask an Inspiration forever!
David: That is a great question, and I’m so glad to be able to answer that. Because I’m one of those people who, if I cannot tell you why I believe something, I won’t believe it. I have to know why. That’s just something about me. If you could sum up my entire personality, it’s “Why?”–“Why this, why that?” It makes you more solid of a person, if you can say, “Right or wrong, this is why I am who I am.” This is why. You’re more sure of yourself, you’re a more confident person.

I’ve looked at this. I don’t believe that Southern Gospel is a style of music. It is a genre of music. It is a classification, but it does not necessarily refer to the style. And I say that simply because there is such a broad range of style. How do you put a cap on it? You have the Crabb Family (or what used to be the Crabb Family), you have Gold City, which has varied in its almost thirty years of being around. The Inspirations have been one of the few groups who have stayed the same, which has been a recipe of success for them, but I don’t think you can point to one group and say, “That’s what Southern Gospel should sound like.”

There are preferences of styles. It’s hard to say, “This one’s wrong.” Now I don’t think rap’s gonna find its way into Southern Gospel, I just don’t think that’s gonna fly…

DJM: If rap is music at all!
David: I don’t look at it as that, at all.
I only listen to Southern Gospel. Well, some country—a little bit of country, just because I like the sound. I love the country feel.

I love Gold City. I love the Kingdom Heirs. I love the Kingsmen. I like Legacy Five—all of those groups. I think the world of those people. And not all of the Inspirations would feel this way, but this is personally, I believe that all that works together to promote what is really Southern Gospel music—which is the Gospel itself. I believe Southern Gospel is its own entity because it has stayed true to the roots of what the Gospel really is.

I believe there’s a lot of “gospel” and “Christian” music out there that’s nothing more than fluff. There’s no doctrine. That’s a word a lot of people don’t like to use, but all it means is “teaching.” There’s no teaching in it. There’s nothing about the blood, there’s nothing about the Lord Jesus Christ and His death, there’s nothing about Hell. Those are not positive topics all the time, but they have to be there for the Gospel to be there. What the Gospel actually is has to be promoted for it to be true Gospel music, in my opinion. And a group that will faithfully do that regardless of style, regardless perhaps even of how they dress—though that can be important, I’m not diminishing that, and I respect the Inspirations for being conservative in those areas all those years, and I think that’s good—but Gold City’s changed a little bit in that. The Crabb Family would be considered Southern Gospel; you can look at their songs and see good Christian doctrine.

I’m not gonna divide. I’m not gonna divide with Ernie Haase & Signature Sound. I don’t prefer to dance [laughs], that’s not my thing. But I know Ernie’s a good guy. I’ve read so many things he’s written on blogs, and on his own website, and I say, “You know, that’s not coming from a  guy who’s just out to make money.” And so I support that. Would I prefer it? Well, I wouldn’t necessarily want to watch him, but I’ve got all his music! It’s all solid. I mean, there’s a couple goofy songs here and there.

DJM: Happy Birthday Anniversary Too. [both laugh]
David: Yeah. That’s probably not gonna drive somebody to the altar, you know!

But that’s what I believe it is. And that’s my goal, to promote it. You cannot change your message.

Styles will change. You can look at rock and roll music from the 50s and 60s and compare it to the Gospel music of today. Some of Gold City’s stuff would be considered with a more driving beat or rhythm than the Beatles would have when they started.

All of those things will change. Culture will change—it’s designed to. Language changes. Personalities will change. People change. But the message of the Gospel is timeless. But as long as Southern Gospel music, and those who claim to represent it, remains true to that message, and says, “We’re gonna stand on the Word of God, no matter how unpopular,” it will always be Southern Gospel music, and God will always bless that. He always promises to bless His Word, because His Word will not come back void. And if we lift up His Word and promote it, we cannot go wrong.

And that’s what I believe Southern Gospel is.

DJM: Suppose the year is 1983, and you have the choice of singing for any Gospel group besides the Inspirations. Who would you sing with in that era?
David: Gold City. I love Gold City.

I consider Ivan Parker to be the best lead singer ever. You cannot top Ivan’s rendition of “The Midnight Cry,” in my opinion. Other people have tried, but I love Ivan’s rendition.

And I love Gold City when they changed, with Jonathan Wilburn and Jay Parrack. Jay Parrack’s my all-time favorite tenor singer. Mark Trammell, Jonathan Wilburn, Jay Parrack, and Tim Riley—to me, that was the Gold City. I would’ve sung baritone with them in a heartbeat. I love Gold City. And I loved the live band.

DJM: Would you like to say something about the new CD?
David: That was my first experience in the studio, ever.

I was a little nervous about it. I was put in the spotlight—they take your voice and they analyze it, “Could this be done better?” It’s very humbling. But I was ready for it, and they helped out.

I just gotta say—I have to give Melton and Mike a ton of credit. They’ve helped me, vocally and otherwise. They’re patient with me. I’d never sung in a group before. Melton’s the least mature Inspiration, if you will, besides Dallas and myself, and he’s been there ten years! That’s a long time, to be the guy that’s been with the group the shortest!

So they were used to certain things, and when we went into the studio, I was super happy with how it turned out.

Now I’m very critical of my own voice, and I’ve got a lot of work to do. And I’ve got a long ways to go. But when I heard the finished product, I thought, “I really like that.”

We put a higher top to the Inspirations’ sound than has ever been put.

DJM: A higher top?
David: It’s a higher sound.
DJM: Harmonies?
David: Yes.
DJM: With Dallas having a young voice…
David: Yes. With Archie’s voice, we did the harmonies a little lower. Don’t get me wrong; Archie’s the man—I love Archie! But with Dallas there, we’re able to expand the harmony higher.

DJM: Didn’t you sing with the Inspirations for a couple of months before Archie came off the road?
David: My first date would’ve been in September. It was the last couple weeks of September.
DJM: ‘Cause you weren’t at NQC.
David: No, I wasn’t at NQC. It was right after that. I got called right before NQC, and he told me to prepare to come at the end of September. I was not actually completely hired on until the end of December, right after Christmas.
DJM: I remember hearing about a trial period.
David: Yeah, it was like three months long! All of October, all of November, and all of December. He just took that long to make up his mind, or whatever.  But I never missed a date. So I sang about five months with Archie, full-time.

I told him when he left, “It’s been an honor singing with someone like you.” I don’t believe his tenure will ever be matched. Forty-five years to sing the high tenor part…no, there’s no way. The only guy that’s even close is Brian Free…

DJM: And that’s with two different groups.
David: Yeah. And he sings a ton higher, too. He’s one of those “freak people,” kind of like Jay.
DJM: Gold City tends to attract freaks, at least to the tenor part!
David: Yeah—all their tenor singers have been like that.
DJM: And their lead singers could have sung tenor for other groups.
David: That’s true.

DJM: Any other thoughts or comments you wanted to make?
David: Well, I appreciate your blog. I go on there quite a bit, just to see what’s going on. I appreciate the positive comments. I know others are out there, and they have the freedom to do what they do, but I appreciate your positive input. People like you and Aaron Swain are trying to help promote it,. You’re doing something that we can’t do. And we’re thankful to you for that.

We just ask everybody to keep us in their prayers. We need the prayers. We really do—we need to be prayed for.

We need to work together—all the groups, and everyone in each group—to stay as strong as we can, to stay close to the Lord.

DJM: How can people get in contact with the Inspirations, and with you?
David: Anybody can email me at any time. I’ll give my personal email address, that’s no problem. It’s daveragan21@yahoo.com. (21 was my basketball number in high school). And then the Inspirations’ website is www.theinspirations.com. You can call the office at 828-497-2060, and you can talk to Ronnie Hutchins, the Inspirations’ original lead singer. You can order our CDs and DVDs from him.

Write or call anytime.

DJM: Thank you very much!
David: Thank you.
DJM: I appreciate it.

A formatted version of the story is here.

DJM: I understand you were raised as a preacher’s kid in Oklahoma. Could you tell me a little bit about your upbringing?
Randy: Sure, I’d be happy to, Daniel. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you!

My dad was a truck driver and a union worker, and when I was about three years old, he became a Christian. About a year after that, he surrendered to preach. We actually moved from Oklahoma to Louisiana so he could go to Bible College full-time. He attended Baptist Christian College, which is now Louisiana Baptist University, in Shreveport, for about three years.

DJM: How old were you when he was going to college?
Randy: I actually moved the summer of ‘69, so it was in between kindergarten and first grade. So I would’ve been approximately 6 years old.

Then he took his first church in Oklahoma while he was a senior in college. He commuted back and forth—he just had a class or two left—he commuted back and forth during the week. He finished up, and then we were in Oklahoma for ten months.

Then in the middle of my fourth-grade year, we moved to Arkansas. He took a church there and was there for fourteen years.

DJM: What was the name of the church, and where was it?
Randy: The name of the church was originally “West Side Baptist Church” (obviously, it was on the west side of town). Later, they bought five acres of land on the outskirts of town, and changed the name to Victory Baptist, which is what it still is today.

The city was Benton, Arkansas, about fifteen miles southwest of Little Rock.

DJM: So was that basically for the rest of the years you were still at home?
Randy: That is correct. He was actually there after I was grown. I finished there—we started a Christian school in my eighth grade year. I graduated from the high school, and met my wife, Lisa, a little while later. We married and moved to Missouri.

You’d asked me the other day a little bit about my testimony, and I don’t know if you want to go into that now.

DJM: Yeah. I can just make up a question to lead into it if I need to.
Randy: Actually, when I was about fourteen or fifteen years old, as a lot of boys do, I started testing the waters a little bit, becoming rebellious. By the time I was sixteen, I figured out that I knew a lot more than my dad, because every sixteen-year-old boy does, you know!

So rather than run away from home and go that route, I figured I would just outsmart him. I went to the local authorities and had them place me in a foster home. I moved into a foster home for about a year.

All I really wanted—I didn’t rebel against my dad because I thought he didn’t love me, and I didn’t rebel against him because I felt I was abused or mistreated—I just wanted a “normal” family life, what I considered normal. I wanted Dad to come home and play sports with me, and go camping and fishing. I got sick of being the preacher’s kid. And that’s what I rebelled against.

But it’s amazing how God works through all of that, though. When they placed me in custody of the state of Arkansas, and took me to my foster parents, my foster mother met me at the door and said, “Son, you can live here as long as you want. There’s just two rules you have to live by. The first rule is that I make all the rules, and I can make new ones any time I want. The second is that every time I go to church, you’ll go with me. And just for the record, I’m the Sunday School superintendent, the church secretary, and I sing in the choir, so I’m there a lot.”

I literally stood on the porch and dropped my head. I’d just jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. But God really used that family to mend the relationship between me and my parents.

One of the things I’m really thankful for is that my parents did not compromise their beliefs during that. When they sent my belongings, when I opened the suitcase, my Bible was on top of it. My mother had written a note in there: “Son, we love you very much. But as long as you live in our house, you have to live by our rules. And until you’re willing to do that, we’ll just pray for you and love you.”

So when it would have been easy for them to cave in and give me whatever I wanted, they stood strong on Biblical principles, and I’m very thankful for that.

DJM: So about a year after that, you decided to come home?
Randy: I did, actually. Through court meetings and through my foster parents’ guide, I had started rekindling the relationship with my parents, and had become on pretty good terms with them. The timing just worked out right, so I moved home, and was there for a few months. By then I had become independent enough that I moved out on my own, and was on my own for another year. Then I met my wife, and a few months after that, we got married, and moved to Missouri.

DJM: So at what point in all that process did you first discover Southern Gospel music?
Randy: Well, actually I had discovered Southern Gospel around age 12. My mother says that I had memories of it, but I just didn’t know what it was. When my dad was in Bible College, the college had a quartet that traveled called the Crusaders Quartet. We had a couple of their albums. As a matter of fact, I made contact with the bass singer from the group a couple of years ago, and he mailed me the two albums that we had when I was a kid. So I have those in my collection.

So I listened to that quite a bit as a child, but my true love for quartets started around age 12. My Sunday School teacher took me to a Gospel concert in Little Rock, Arkansas. There were several groups on the lineup that day. I remember the Kingsmen Quartet came out and just tore the place down with what we call “three chords and a cloud of dust.” I looked at my buddy and said, “This is awesome!” This is in the mid-70s.

Then after the Kingsmen were done, there were two old guys and three young men in plaid suits walked on the stage. I looked at my friend and said, “This is gonna be awful.” And the piano singer sat down and ran an arpeggio, and the bass singer sang, “There is a fountain filled with blood…”

And it was George Younce and the Cathedrals. I went home that night and told my mom that that’s what I wanted to do. The problem was that at that time, I sang high tenor.

DJM:  Not unlike George himself at that age.
Randy:  That’s true. George started out with a high voice, and then became a lead singer for many years. In my opinion, George is the greatest bass singer ever, and one of the greatest singers ever.

That’s when I developed my love for it. My Sunday School teacher played a huge part in that, letting me borrow his albums and his 8-tracks. I would just wear them out.

DJM:  I’m just curious. Did you stay in touch with Southern Gospel during your years of going the other direction, or did you come back to that later, then?
Randy:  You know, that’s a good question, Daniel. I’ve always loved music from the time I was little bitty. I’ve always had some sort of stereo system in my vehicle.

Yes, I stayed in touch with Southern Gospel, because I still had some 8-tracks and cassettes that I still enjoyed. Like I said, I wasn’t necessarily running from God as I was looking for more of a family relationship. That’s more of what I rebelled against. But my love of the music was always there. Matter of fact, I introduced my foster parents to Southern Gospel. They were not familiar with it. They used to just sit and grin at me because I would play those albums and sing along. Especially in the shower—that was my favorite time to do it.

DJM:  What line of work did you go into before you started singing? Then, when did you start singing regionally, and who did you sing with?
Randy:  Sure. Well, my earliest memories of singing in church were when I was in kindergarten. The family that babysat me had a son that was a year older than me, and he and I sang a duet, which was 2-part unison. That’s my earliest memories of singing.

Being in church, I’ve always been involved in some kind of music program. Then when I got married, though, and moved out on my own, like any young couple, you just take whatever job you can find. Probably my most stable job was when I worked in a factory in Missouri—we made aerial device trucks, which are the big trucks you see the linemen go up in to work on lines. I built those machines for almost 15 years in Saint Joe, Missouri.

During that time, my wife and I started a regional mixed quartet in Missouri called Eastern Sky Quartet. We traveled for four and a half years. As far as regional groups go, we were quite busy. The last couple of years, we were working over 40 weekends a year.

And it was going really good, but my desire had always been to sing in a male quartet. It’s funny how God works: Eastern Sky had worked in a revival, and one night the evangelist preached on finding the will of God and getting in it. I prayed that night that God would give me the desire of my heart. My desire was to sing in a male quartet, as long as that was His will.

What I didn’t know is that that same night, my wife had prayed, asking God to allow her to stay home. She was tired of traveling and wanted to be at home more. She even wrote it in the cover of her Bible—the date and wrote the prayer. I’m paraphrasing, but this is basically what she said: “Dear God, I would like to stay home more, but I know Randy loves to travel and sing. I’m not sure how You’ll work this out, but I’m trusting that You will.”

So later that summer, we worked at an outdoor event in Iowa. We sang with a group from Des Moines called Majesty. And just in conversation with them one day, I was joking with the owner and said, “Hey, if you ever need a bass singer, keep me in mind.”

DJM:  They were a male quartet, then?
Randy:  Yes, they were a male quartet. Anyhow, two weeks later, he called me, and asked me if I was serious about that, and offered me the position. I said, “Well, let me pray about it.”

I’m a lot like Gideon when I pray for things—I want to make sure God’s in it. So I fleeced Him this way—I said, “God, my wife’s reaction will be a good indicator of whether or not you’re in this.”

So when I presented it to her, I said, “Well, what do you think about me singing with Majesty?”

She started smiling from ear to ear, with tears rolling down her face. I said, “What in the world does that mean?” And she showed me her Bible, and showed how God had answered her prayer, and would allow her to stay home and me to travel.

DJM:  And did you realize that night it was the same night you’d prayed, or did you realize that later?
Randy:  She had written in the sermon notes in her Bible, so when we got to looking at it, we realized at that time that it was the same night. And so we just knew that God was in it.

That was in August of ‘97, and we commuted back and forth every weekend from then until January of ‘98, when we moved to Des Moines, Iowa, and joined Majesty. And for the next two and a half years, Majesty worked forty-eight-plus weekends a year, in about a seven state area. Then we had some personnel changes, and we continued on for a couple of years after that, even though we did slow down some.

And the group had kind of disbanded, but through that, I had developed relationships with local pastors. I emceed for Majesty, and through that, pastors would ask me to come in to fill in at their pulpit, or preach, or whatever. So for a brief time, I had a ministry called “New Direction Ministry,” for about a year and a half, and stayed quite busy doing that. But my love for singing in a quartet was still my focus and my desire. So I reconnected with the owner of Majesty, and we re-formed that in late 2003. We had actually just been back on the road for about six months when the opportunity to join the Blackwood family came along.

DJM:  Okay. Now with Eastern Sky and then with Majesty, what were the names of the recordings you made, just so I can keep my eyes out for them?
Randy:  Well, Eastern Sky made two recordings. We did it all ourselves. We hired a little studio in Kansas City, in a guy’s house, and we produced it and everything. To my knowledge there’s none in existence, but there may be. One was entitled, His Blood Still Sets Men Free, and the other one … I have no idea! I don’t know that we ever titled it, to be honest with you. They were just two cassette recordings—we never even put them on CD.

I was on two recordings with Majesty as well. The first was titled Back by Popular Demand, and then the second one was the 25th Anniversary of the group. I was proud of it—I helped produce that album and design the liner notes for it. It was entitled Then and Still, with the thought being that Woody had developed his love for quartets at an early age. He pushed very hard for Majesty to do the things like they used to back then.

DJM:  Woody?
Randy:  James Woodyard—everybody called him “Woody.” He was the tenor and the owner of the group. He insisted that we do things the way they used to do back then, and still today. And we just did a play on words, and called it Then and Still.

Also on that recording was Milo Herrick. Milo was the staff vocalist for Jimmy Swaggart before John Starnes. He still sings—lives in Atoma, Iowa, and just a great guy.

DJM:  So how did the opportunity arise to sing with the Blackwood Brothers?
Randy:  Well actually, as I mentioned, we had just re-formed Majesty. The Blackwood Gospel Quartet was in concert in the Des Moines area. They announced that Ken Turner was retiring and that they were looking for a bass singer. Somebody at that concert that knew me from Majesty—to this day, I don’t know who it was—but somebody gave them my information.

That next week I got an email from Marc Blackwood, asking me to come audition. And I thought it was a joke. His email address was just initials, and I didn’t know who it was from at first, till I read the email. Like I said, I thought it was a joke. I didn’t answer at first. I got another one the next day, so I responded to it. Long story short, they wanted me to audition that Saturday night.

Majesty was scheduled to be in Illinois that Saturday. So my wife and I drove to where they were on Friday night, which was about a 5-hour drive, and I emailed him, told him I was coming just to hear them. In the middle of that, they started taking requests. Marc came down, handed the mike to me, and said, “Sing some songs with us,” right there on the spot. He offered me the job that night. I couldn’t take it that night. I told him I wanted to pray about it.

The next weekend he flew me to New Jersey. I did a New England tour with them, got the job, and two weeks later, I moved to Tennessee. That was in April of 2004.

DJM:  In April of 2004. Now was Jimmy already with the group at that point, or how much after that did he join?
Randy:  I don’t remember the exact timing. It was later that summer. I could probably find out if I did some research.

Actually, Wayne Little was already singing with Marc when I joined. We were scheduled to sing with Ernie Haase & Signature Sound in Greeneville, Texas, at a Harold Marshall event. We had just lost our piano player and our baritone. Our piano player had broken his leg. And so Marc, unbeknownst to us, had called Brad White and Jimmy to come down and fill in. I didn’t know they were coming till they walked on stage for sound check.

I was very nervous, because I’d grown up listening to Jimmy, and had seen him on TV, and I was just very nervous for him to be there. But he walked in that night, and just made me feel totally at ease, like I was part of them, and anyway, long story short, they were just filling in. Then a few months later, Marc asked them to join the group, which they did. Then a few months after they joined, Marc said he was going to start Blackwood Gospel Quartet back up.

DJM:  At that point, Jimmy decided to bring back the Blackwood Brothers name?
Randy:  Well actually, Marc was traveling as the Blackwood Gospel Quartet. Due to some legal proceedings over the trademark of the name, and lawyers’ advice, we had changed the name back to the Blackwood Brothers, and were traveling as the Blackwood Brothers, as Marc being with us.

Shortly after that, he decided to go back and start up the Blackwood Gospel Quartet. So we just continued, the four of us, on as the Blackwood Brothers. That’s been four and a half years ago.

DJM:  So was it late ‘04 that the Blackwood Brothers name came back?
Randy:  Somewhere in that time frame, late ‘04, early 2005, somewhere in that time frame, I don’t remember exactly.

DJM:  What have some of the highlights been of the four and a half years you’ve spent with the Blackwood Brothers?
Randy:  Well, it’s everything that I dreamed it would be and more. To think of just a highlight would be impossible. There are just so many.

Getting to sing with the people I’ve long admired, and getting to know them on a personal basis, is no doubt a highlight.

This year we’ll be singing on the main stage at the Quartet Convention, which has been a dream since I was a kid.

DJM:  In fact, it’s a month and a day away. (At the time of the interview!)
Randy:  I’m counting the days. (Laughs.)

DJM:  You’re not the only one!
Randy:  A funny story: One of the highlights that turned out not to be a highlight was that ever since I was young, I wanted to sing in Merrimac Caverns. We got invited to sing there last year with Ed O’Neal and the Dixie Melody Boys. The day that we were to sing, I developed laryngitis. I could not make a sound. My chance to sing bass in that big cave was there, and I couldn’t utter a sound. But they did re-book us this year, and we’re back on the main stage at Merrimac, so I’m looking forward to that.

Probably the single biggest highlight, though, is that this is the Blackwood Brothers’ 75th Anniversary year. And a couple of weeks ago, we were in Tennessee with the Inmans—Clayton Inman’s family—hosted a sing for us there. Dr. Buck Morton was the emcee for the evening.

Halfway through it, they had us sit down on some stools on stage, and they presented a video presentation paying tribute to the family. It was such an honor for me to sit back and watch them paying tribute to Jimmy and the family. His mother, who is 88 years old, was there, and his wife, and grandkids. That was a highlight, because it was just special to really get a grasp on what you’re able to be a part of. So I would say that ranks way up there on the highlight list.

DJM:  You also had the opportunity to have a solo on a song the group did on a Gaither Homecoming video.
Randy:  That is true …

DJM:  And what was that like?
Randy:  That was a highlight. It almost turned out to be a nightmare for me. We did not know until the day before the taping what song we were going to sing. Bill Gaither picked the song off of our hymns album. And as luck would have it, he picked the song “More About Jesus,” which featured me on a verse. The problem was, I had laryngitis the day before the taping. I know it seems like a pattern here—I don’t get laryngitis that often—but I could not make a sound the day before! But to walk in that day and get to what goes on behind the scenes for a Gaither taping is just very mind-boggling. But when it came time for sing, God blessed, and we had a good stand there, and people were very receptive, and made us feel at home. It was just a very special day, without a doubt.

DJM:  The Blackwood Brothers recently signed with Daywind. Could you talk a little bit about that, and a certain special project in the works?
Randy:  Sure, there’s actually very exciting news. We did sign with Daywind. The first thing on the plate for us is that they’re wanting to put out a 75th Anniversary album. They’re hoping to have it out around November or before. We’ll do at least ten songs, Blackwood classics that we will sing. They’re also hoping to release some old RCA recordings or some vintage recordings. We’re not sure yet—they’re still discussing that.

And at the same time, they’re pitching us all new songs that we’re in the process of selecting for an all original album. So it’ll be the first original Blackwood Brothers release in many, many years. I’m not sure the last time a recording of all original songs was released.

DJM:  ‘84 or ‘85, I’d say, probably—over twenty years?
Randy:  Over twenty years, and I don’t know if that one in ‘84 or ‘85 was ten brand new songs. It was probably some re-cuts. So this will be the first all original recording done by the Blackwood Brothers in many years. We’re very excited about that.

DJM:  Any other thoughts or comments? And could you close that with how people can get in touch with the Blackwood Brothers, and you personally?
Randy:  I just want to say that I appreciate the opportunity to visit with you today…

DJM:  Thank you!
Randy:  …and without a doubt, a highlight for me has been to get to meet you and your family. Not just for you personally, but for what you do for Gospel music. Who would think that a young kid with a computer from Ohio could make such an impact in such a short period of time, but you have, and I want to congratulate you on that, and encourage you to keep on keepin’ on.

You can reach us by visiting our website, www.blackwoodbrothers.com. We also have a facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Blackwood-Brothers-Quartet/102626178884).

You can contact me personally by email—randy@blackwoodbrothers.com—or my cell phone, 595-991-2510.

DJM:  You’re actually going to let me put that in the interview?
Randy:  I’m happy to put that out there.

DJM:  Wow!
Randy:  Not so much that I enjoy talking on the phone, but I would rather talk than type. I talk better than I type!
DJM:  Thank you very much!

Note: For all of you who actually read this all the way through, I tried something new today—making the whole post viewable on the main page, instead of hiding some of it under a “more” on its own page. Do you like this or prefer the old way?

Since I try hard to come up with insightful questions that I haven’t seen asked elsewhere, I typically prepare questions in advance, print them out, and bring them to the interview. For the first time, I completely forgot. So I had to wing it, making up questions as I went. And I think the interview might have been better for it. Perhaps I should make a point of forgetting more often.

You can read the formatted interview (with pictures) here; for a plain text version, click “Continue Reading.”

DJM: The Perrys first sang together on December 25, 1970. Did you sing occasionally at first, and if so, how long was it before you began singing together regularly?
Libbi: It was probably within 2 or 3 weeks that word started getting around. The church where I was raised was close-knit with other local churches, and so word just kinda spread. Probably within a couple of weeks, things just started happening. Before we knew it, we were going within 100 miles of home, and then it just kept getting further and further.

DJM: But you didn’t record until 1973, I think?
Libbi: Yes.

DJM. OK. So were you just recording classic songs at first, or did you record new songs from the start?
Libbi: We did some original stuff. But we were big original Hinsons fans, and Goodmans, and Rambos, so a couple of songs on there were from those artists. It’s funny because several years down the road, Kenny Hinson produced a couple of our albums. The first one he produced, he called us over to the side during a break and he said, “Listen, y’all have great potential, but let me give you a word of advice. Get your own songs.”

He didn’t mean that in a mean way or anything like that, but he was like, “A group that can get their own songs from writers or can write their own songs, it will just take off.” And that’s the best advice that anyone has ever given us. We did just exactly what he said, and doors just started opening.

DJM: So how long had you been on the road when you signed with Eddie Crook?
Libbi: The first project that we did with Eddie was called Looking Back, and that was 1984, the year before Tracy came with us.

DJM: Before or after the Kenny Hinson projects?
Libbi: That was after. Kenny Hinson did produce two albums before that. Then we had done our very first album. So before we recorded with Eddie, we had already recorded three albums.

Back then, we recorded about every two years, ’cause it’d take us that long to save up enough money to do an album. Back then, the first album we did, we did all the tracks and singing in one day. And then with Kenny, we went in and did tracks one day and vocals the next. They were fun days, but they were hard.

DJM: So you were then with Eddie Crook until you signed with Daywind?
Libbi: Yes. We signed with them until 1997, and then we signed with Daywind in February of ‘97.

DJM: So whose idea was it to start singing?
Libbi: The Christmas Day after my older brother passed away—July 30, 1970—that Christmas Day, my uncle came by to check on us, see how we were doing. We weren’t doing good at all. So he got on the phone, called the people from our church, from our community. Less than an hour later, our house was filled with people.

My mom had bought an old antique piano for my older brother and sister to learn to play on. And everybody just kinda gathered around the piano. The kids were running through, playing and stuff.  They stopped us kids and said, “Hey, come on up here—let’s see if y’all can sing.” And so they got me and my older sister Debra and my older brother Randy together, and we sang our very first song, “Jesus is Coming Soon.” So that’s just kinda how it started.

DJM: I assume that on that first day, you didn’t know this was something you’d still be doing 35 or 40 years later. When did you hit that point? Was there a certain event that prompted you to know this was a life calling?
Libbi: That was in 1982, when my younger brother passed away. It was like God really showed us that we had a story to tell, and that we needed to share it in a broader channel. So we just started praying about it, and we were like, “Okay, God, if this is what You want us to do, then You open the doors. We’re not gonna try to open them ourselves. If You open them, we’ll walk through them.”

And from that point, things just started happening. When you let God open the doors, you know beyond the shadow of the doubt that that’s what He wants you to do.

DJM: This is an off-the-wall question. I’ve heard the original manager of Gold City came up with an unusual nickname for you. What’s the story behind that?
Libbi: Came up with a nickname for me! (pauses)

Well, when I was in high school, in my senior year, for Christmas my dad and mom helped me get a car. A bunch of us kids at school were into the Dukes of Hazard—crazy, but true—so we all named our cars after somebody on the TV show. My car was named Flash, which is the beagle dog that’s on there.

So Floyd Beck, who owned Gold City when they started the group, he would call us to come up there and listen. He was like, “Now I want y’all kids to sit and take notes, and pay attention, because if singing’s what you’re gonna do, you need to learn from the best.” Gold City was just starting.

So I would hang out with his daughter. We were walking through the house one day, and I said, “Well, I’d better go get Flash fired up.”

And he’s like “Flash?”

And I was like, “Yeah, that’s the name of my car.”

And so he said, “Well, that’s what I’m gonna start calling you.”

He had gold satin jackets made for the group members, that had Gold City in big letters on the back, and their names on the front. So he called me one day, and said, “Hey, I want you to come to the house—I’ve got something for you.”

So when I got there, he handed me a Gold City jacket. On the left lapel, he had Flash embroidered on it. I was like, “Oh my gosh!” And I still have the jacket to this day.

He started that and it just went like wildfire. After Gold City got bigger, with group changes, it kinda died out a little bit.

I don’t know where you heard about it… (laughs)

DJM: [keeps straight face]
Libbi: …but yeah, that’s where it came from.

DJM: Something I’ve been curious about: I’m not too familiar with the history of Daywind. I believe Dottie Leonard Miller started it, but how many years had it been going when you joined? And who was with Daywind at that point?
Libbi: I’m not sure what exactly the year was that they started. But Dottie worked for Calvary Records before she started what was New Day then.

Calvary was the Hinson’s label. I guess she got in the know of how things run, how things work and everything. But she started New Day for just soundtracks. She just advanced and advanced and ended up with the record company.

The groups that were there when we signed were Brian Free and Assurance, Bo Hinson and the New Hinsons, Jeff Steele and the Steeles, and I’m wanting to say the Cumberland Boys. They had some other groups, but they were on the smaller labels.

I’m not sure what exactly the year was, but that’s how it got started.

DJM: What are some highlights from the current project, Almost Morning? What are some special songs to you, or anything along those lines.
Libbi: Almost Morning has really caught us by surprise. We’d gone two years on Look No Further, so we were overdue for a new project.

When you release a project, you’ll get some good talk about it and everything. But the talk on this one really started in advance, because we got the songs out at a couple of camp meetings, and a couple of those were webcast. The songs were posted on the Internet, on YouTube and different places, and people were just responding to two of the main songs, “Did I Mention” and “If You Knew Him.”

“Did I Mention,” which Kyla Rowland wrote, is just a simple song that says, “You know what, I just love Him! He’s brought me so far, He’s been faithful to every promise He ever made, did I mention that I love him!”

It’s just so simple, and in this society, I think we go through our days and we forget to tell Him. But this song is a reminder that no matter what we’re going through, He’s faithful. He’s never forsaken us. And I just want to tell Him that I love Him!

Joseph [Habedank] wrote “If You Knew Him,” our new single. It’s an incredible song.

DJM: I was going to ask about that song in particular. How long ago did he write it, and when did he pitch it to you?
Libbi: Tracy asked him back in October or November, he said, “Joseph, I really want for our new album a really good resurrection song. I really feel that, in the day and age we live in, we need to let the people know where we stand as Christians, what we believe in.”

So Joseph went over to Morristown, Tennessee, over to Rodney Griffin’s house. He stayed a couple of days, and Rodney kinda took Joseph under his wings, showing him the art of the trade and stuff.

Now Joseph never says anything about his songs. He’ll just give us a CD, and he’s like, “Here’s some songs. Y’all can just listen to them, and if you like them, fine, and if you don’t no big deal.”

So we were headed to Florida and Tracy put the CD in. When that song came on, he immediately started weeping. He said, “Guys, I just want y’all to come up here.”

He said, “If I could have written a song from my heart, this would’ve been it. Joseph, you wrote exactly what I wanted to say.”

For probably 30 minutes, we listened to that song over and over, and every one of us was just in tears.

You never know how a song’s gonna turn out until you get it recorded. When we finished recording it, and Wayne Haun sent us the finished product, we were like, “Wow…” I mean, I sit back sometimes, and I say, “That’s not us. That’s just beyond our capability.” And it just has the touch of God on it.

DJM: I just love the title track “Almost Morning,” the lyrics and the tune. I saw a post online that there’s a neat story behind that song, too, and how the song impacted your family.
Libbi: Joseph wrote the song and wanted me to sing it. When he played it for me, I looked at him and said, “Joseph, there’s no way that I can convey this message like what you can.” You’d have to know the background of the way Joseph was raised, by a single mom with three kids, and a lot of stuff that they went through.

I have a niece, my next-to-the-oldest niece. She had gotten out on drugs and alcohol, and just was really in bad shape. She come to see us sing one night, and she said to me, “Mimi, I’ve gotta have some help. If I don’t something bad’s gonna happen.”

We said, “Well, go home, get enough clothes to stay a month, and we’ll help you every way we can. But you’ve gotta live by our rules, what we say.”

So she came and we would take her with us on the road and everything. The first three weeks were so hard. I said, “There’s just no way. If God changes her, it’s gonna be a miracle.” I knew deep down inside that she has a love for God, but the devil had just overtaken her.

So Joseph sang this song one night on the bus. He was playing it for us; they had just written it that week. The next night, we were in Calhoun, Georgia. Now I have a history of doing things that you just ordinarily wouldn’t do. Tracy just stays on pins and needles, because he never knows what’s next!

The service was going great, but God kept bringing this song to mind. So I just stopped everything and said, “Tracy, I know you’re probably gonna kill me, but God is just wantin’ this song sung.” I said, “It’s a brand new song—the guys just wrote it this week.”

Matthew (Holt) was with us then—he helped co-write the song, and I said, “They just sang it for us last night on the bus. But God wants it sung tonight for a reason, though I don’t know what it is.”

Well, my niece was sitting on the second row. He sang the first verse and got down to about the first line in the chorus, and she ran to the altar.

I was just like, “Oh, my gosh!” She stayed there for ten or fifteen minutes. When she came up, she totally surrendered her life back to Christ. It’s because of that song. She said, “That song made me realize that, yeah, I’ve strayed, and I’ve been in the dark places, but God loves me, and He’s gonna take care of me.”

So that song has had a special meaning for our family and for her. We actually dedicated that song and the album to her. We gave her the first CD, and when she read it, she started crying. She said, “I can’t believe y’all would do this for me—y’all have already helped me so much.”

I was like, “This is just a confirmation—we want to let you know that we’re so proud and thankful that you allowed God to do a work in your life.”

DJM: To wrap up, any other thoughts or comments, and how can people get in touch with you?
Libbi: This album, Almost Morning, has a variety of different songs. It’s still Perrys style, but we kind of stepped outside the box a little bit. Every song has a message. We don’t want just filler songs.

It’s kind of funny, but this is the first album that we’ve sung every song just about every night.

DJM: So there were songs from Look No Further that you didn’t regularly stage?
Libbi: Yeah, there were several, probably three or four that we sang maybe once or twice and that was it. But this album, just about every night, we’ll sing every song, with maybe an exception or two. But every weekend, we wind up getting those songs in.

So to me, it’s our favorite album. I can sit and listen to it. Now I never sit and listen to our stuff at all, I just don’t do that. But this album I listen to more than anything. It’s just an incredible album, full of the message of the Word. So we’re hoping that it’s going to change lives, all through God. If people will just listen to the words, there’s something for everybody. That’s what we’re hoping for the album,

People can get in touch with us through www.perrysministries.com. We’re on Facebook with the “Perrys Friends Club,” on twitter at www.twitter.com/theperrys70, and we have our individual ones, which you can find through the group accounts. So we’re just trying to stay in touch with our friends and our fans, just trying to let them know that if they need us, we’re here.

DJM: All right, and thank you very much!